Transcript of 5 January NewsX program on Russian retaliation for latest ATACMS strike

Transcript submitted by a reader

NewsX – Porteous: 0:12
Hello and welcome. I am Thomas Porteous, and you’re watching the World Report. Let’s take a look at the headlines this hour. Hamas releases a new video of a Israeli hostage who was captured in the October 7 attacks. In the three and a half minute video, she appeals in Hebrew for the Israeli government to secure her release. Russia promises retaliation after Ukraine fires US-supplied missiles at the Belgorod region. Russia claims that they shot down eight ATACMS missiles in the border region. Officials in Ukraine have not yet responded to the accusation.

1:01
Thousands take to the streets in the South Korean capital Seoul to rally both for and against the arrest of impeached President Yoon Suk-yul. The arrest warrant for Yoon is set to expire at midnight on Monday. Donald Trump says no American can be happy that flags will be at half-mast when he is inaugurated later this month. Joe Biden orders US flags to be lowered for a customary 30 days on a federal [venue] in honor of late Jimmy Carter, who will be buried in a state funeral next week.

1:43
Tensions rise as Russia claims to have downed eight US-supplied ATACMS missiles fired by Ukraine into Belgorod. The Russian Ministry of Defense vowed retaliation, accusing Kiev of provoking further conflicts. Meanwhile, Moscow has demanded the United nations condemn Ukraine following an alleged drone attack in eastern Ukraine. The attack, which Russia says killed journalist Alexander Martiyanow and injured several others, occurred in the Donetsk region. Ukraine has yet to comment on either incident.

2:17
Today I am joined by Glenn Grant, ex-advisor to Ukraine’s defence minister; Gilbert Doctorow, Russian affairs expert; Professor Madhav Nalapat; and Professor Patrick Lancaster, war journalist. I want to come to you, Glenn Grant, I want to ask what is Kiev’s position on this alleged missile attack that they launched into Russian territory and how is this incident being framed by Ukrainian media?

Grant:
I’m sorry, but I don’t think it is being framed by Ukrainian media at all. I mean, this is a missile attack in the middle of a war. There are plenty of them. And you may have noticed that– you didn’t actually speak it. You may not have noticed that there’s actually another counterattack started in the Kursk area. So there would have been plenty of missile attacks going on all over the front line to try and hold down troops and to take people’s minds off actually what is happening.

3:18
In terms of the journalists being killed, this is only the 18th journalist being killed in this war compared to 150 in Syria. People don’t go out deliberately to target journalists, but war journalists, war correspondents are right up in the front line and they are going to get killed just the same as everybody else. It’s probably the most risky profession after being a soldier in the world.

NewsX: 3:45
This war obviously, there’s speculation about this war coming to an end soon. Do you see that happening? … Glenn Grant, sorry.

Grant:
Yeah, so Russia is not going to stop at the moment. Putin thinks he’s winning. He’s going to keep going and I don’t think that anything that Trump or anybody else is going to say at the moment is going to stop him.

NewsX:
Thank you very much Glenn Glant for joining us. I want to move on to Professor Madhav Nalapath. What [are] the potential consequences of Russia’s retaliation?

Nalapat:
Well, I think Zelensky will be hoping that the consequences will be such as to draw the United States directly into a conflict, thereby presenting a conundrum for incoming President Trump. I think not just Zelensky, but a lot of people within the Biden administration as well have been busily laying all kinds of land mines for Donald Trump to step on. I think they are proving to be very bad losers, not in words the way Trump was, but in practice.

5:06
So frankly, I think Zelensky is hoping that Putin will expand the war significantly and in a way create as large a zone of conflict that the United States has willy-nilly to be dragged in it and Trump will find it difficult to stop it. I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think Putin is taking a very measured stance and I think he realizes that this is a very provocative attack. There will be a very hard-hitting attack on Ukraine; there can be no doubt about that. Possibly it involves some some newer missile and other systems that the Russians have been developing. You know last time around they tested the Orshchnik; this time around they may test something else. But the reality is, I don’t think Putin is going to be drawn into a larger war. He’s not going to fall into Zelensky’s trap. And as for you know– he wants, he’s got a limited purpose in Ukraine and he’s secured about 80% of that purpose.

6:10
I agree with Glenn that he’s going to continue and it will secure 100% of that purpose, and further he would like to ensure that Ukraine never become part of any hostile alliance; that would be a given. So I think yes he is going to continue the war until these conditions are met: he gets the whole of territory that he wanted in the beginning of the war, and he makes sure that Ukraine is not in a position to join any military alliance after the war. Thank you

NewsX: 6:43
Professor Nalapat, I wanted to ask what are the potential international consequences of Russia retaliation? How might it impact NATO’s involvement?

Nalapat:
Look, I don’t think the people running NATO are going to be unwise enough to get directly involved. So far they have done a very very good job of ensuring that the whole war is kept sub-critical. So they don’t have to go in and may I point out to you that over the last one year, public opinion has soured on the Ukraine war and frankly soured on Zelensky. That’s happening also in Ukraine. So I don’t think there’s any appetite among Western voters to go in for a war with Russia. Not at all. The reality of situation is, people like George Soros, I’m sorry to say, I mean judging by many of his actions, people like Joe Biden are still stuck in the old cold war with the Soviet Union, forgetting it’s now the Russian Federation. And as a consequence, they’re giving China a free pass in the actual cold war taking place, which is Cold War 2.0 between the democracies and China.

NewsX: 8:05
Thank you very much. Patrick Lancaster, I wanted to move on to you next. Obviously, you have been on the ground in the conflict. I want to ask what kind of damage one of these ATCMS missiles [does]?

Lancaster:
Yeah, hi, glad to be on again. Those type of missiles do a lot of damage, and the fact of the permission being given to fire them deep into Russian territory of course inflamed the situation. But the situation on the ground in the war zone is now very complicated, as we know, with Russia taking a lot of territory almost every day, taking control from Ukrainian forces. And a lot of these civilians are waiting in these territories and actually welcoming Russian forces. So as far as the side from Ukraine, it’s pretty difficult for them, because the population of these territories that Russia is taking control of is actually in most times supporting the Russian forces. But the daily events here on the ground are very hard for not only the civilian population but journalists as well and first responders.

9:38
Just in the last 24 hours there has been unfortunately six journalists injured and one journalist killed just in the last 24 hours, by Ukrainian drone attacks. Because what Ukraine is doing with these drones is targeting civilian vehicles. And many journalists have been injured and killed over the last years and months, and many civilians. I myself have seen many civilians killed by these target attacks on civilian vehicles by Ukrainian forces. We’re not talking about just personal cars, but also city buses and things like that. It’s not a chance of an accident at this point. These drone operators of the Ukrainian forces are seeing the live footage from the cameras on the drone and choosing to target these civilian vehicles and civilian–

NewsX: 10:35
Gilbert Doctorow, I wanted to bring you in there. What is your response? Have you heard anything about Ukrainian civilian attacks on, yeah, Ukrainian civilian attacks?

Gilbert Doctowow, PhD:
Well, that is one of the most important features in Russian news. And the Ukrainians have used the ATACMS missiles primarily against residential buildings. This is what is called terror. When you strike, intentionally target civilians either by these kamikaze drones, as the previous panelist just described, or if you’re using larger missiles to attack residential buildings, then you are practicing terror. And there’s a reason for terror. Terror is what you do when you cannot fight on the ground, fair and square, with your troops and have any chance of winning.

11:34
The Ukrainians are not just loosing territory, they’re losing men. They’re losing men on the battlefield every day, whether it’s a thousand or two thousand, that depends on which front you’re looking at. And they are rolling back. That is most important. It’s not just the capture of territory, but the Ukrainian forces are retreating without having any place to build a secure protection for themselves. So this will keep on going to the Dnieper River.

NewsX: 12:00
So what do you say to the reports that came out of the Kursk region today of large amounts of Russian troops and even some North Korean troops being killed there?

Doctorow;
That is possible. I would take with a grain of salt any announcements coming from Kiev. They have been unapologetic propagandists from the get-go. And so it is today. All of their numbers are unbelievable. The regrettable thing is that the American intelligence agencies are carrying this phony, false information from Kiev and giving it to the American leadership, to Mr. Biden and those around him. And so American policy is being based on falsehoods which are coming from Kiev. And that is sad, if not tragic.

NewsX: 12:47
Thank you very much for joining us, all our guests today. We will now look at some more news updates from across the world.