Transcript of RT International interview, 25 July

Transcript submitted by a reader

RT: 0:00
And let’s now cross live to Gilbert Doctorow, a former visiting scholar at Harriman Institute, Columbia University. Welcome to the program, sir. On Tuesday, Zelensky and the Ukrainian parliament put an end to any independence the anti-corruption watchdog had, and today they’re restoring it by introducing a new bill in the Rada. Why such a quick turnaround, do you think?

Gilbert Doctorow, PhD:
Well, because of the massive demonstrations. I would like to complement the report that you’ve given very ably on what Mr. Zelensky did, what he has just undone, how he received pressure. That’s all fine. But let’s go to the question of these massive demonstrations. The “New York Times” said in their first report on the demonstrations, this goes back to Wednesday, “Well, this is the first mass demonstration in Ukraine in three years of war.”

Yes, very interesting. And why is it that there were demonstrations now? Nobody’s asked that question. Let’s deal with that. Does that mean that everybody was very happy in Ukraine with the government? Of course it doesn’t. It means that you’d get your skull fractured if you dared to step out and think of a demonstration. Going back to October 2014 and the elections of the [Rada] at that time, when the first elections that took place after the new regime was put in place by a coup d’etat, those elections were witnessed by foreign observers who reported extensively on the violence that was used against the opponents of the regime. That hasn’t changed. Now, what has changed is that nobody confronted the 10,000 or more demonstrators that came out on the streets of Kiev, not to mention thousands more in all the other major cities of Ukraine.

2:01
Why did that happen? Let’s try to think. I would suggest we should think that someone, probably in the West, wants to change the regime. And that is the investigation path that I urge upon listeners to this, I would suggest that the usual actors like MI6 are behind it. Why did the Ukrainian army not fire into the crowd? They got orders not to. And I don’t believe that Mr. Zelensky gave those orders. So we are about to witness regime change in Ukraine. And the major media in the West are preparing, at least in the States, the American public for regime change and for the removal of Zelensky.

RT: 2:49
And if we look at the reaction of the public, Ukrainians have not reacted in such a strong way to other controversial events, like when the country’s national resources were sold to the United States, for example. Why has this caused so much controversy now?

Doctorow:
Because now you weren’t going to get your head bashed in, that’s why. You weren’t going to get shot. This is the cardinal change that has to be brought out, what happened in this week. It is the first step of two or three steps to remove Zelensky and the whole gang of neo-Nazis who have the Ukrainian nation by the neck. It is not thinkable that the whole public was satisfied with the Zelensky regime and therefore didn’t demonstrate. No. They just used common sense, which was: you don’t want to risk your life. Now, it was clear the government had, the army had been given orders not to fire.

3:49
Moreover, the instruction that we understood again from major Western media is that the army was told not to come out in the streets in their uniforms to demonstrate against the law. My goodness, what a change. This is the first stage in the removal of the Zelensky government.

RT:
What about his image, Zelensky’s actions concerning NABU and the restoration of its autonomy? Do you think that will save the image or will it damage even more?

Doctorow:
Among whom? Among Ukrainians, I don’t think there is a particular love for Mr. Zelensky. The country is patriotic. Ukrainians share the same religious and political conservatism, shall we say, of Russians. They are going to fight to the end, but they’re not stupid. And if they did not demonstrate in any way against Mr. Zelensky, it was not for love of him and his peers and his colleagues. It was because they were afraid for their lives. That somehow miraculously has changed in the past week, and it deserves proper attention.

5:07
I have said for some time this war will not end by a military capitulation. The idea that next week the Ukrainian army will raise a white flag is totally unrealistic, even though nearly all of my peers are suggesting that will happen. No, no, the Ukrainian government will collapse of its own weight and of its own unpopularity. And with some help from those Western sponsors who want to see it collapse.

RT:
And meanwhile, Zelensky keeps asking for money from the Western backers, let’s call them that, Western friends. And now he wants the EU to pay Ukrainian soldiers their salaries. Do you think Europe will agree? And where is it going to find the funds?

Doctorow: 5:54
Well, I don’t think they’ll say no, but they just won’t do it. There aren’t funds available. And I don’t think there’s a great eagerness to provide them even if they were available. The standing of the Ukrainian government is very low. The notion that the Ukrainian army can defend its territory and that it, not to mention that it will gain back territory and defeat Russia, that is only maintained by complete fools. The Western mainstream media no longer holds that to be true.

And that is the point. They are preparing, at least in the United States, where there’s far more political freedom for the press than there is in Europe, the press in the States is giving strong signs. Less than two weeks ago there was a feature article in the “New York Times” on the war crimes committed by the Ukrainian forces during their occupation of Kursk Oblast. This is unbelievable.

6:57
From the start of the war, Western media portrayed Ukraine as bunny rabbits, which were being assaulted, attacked by the big bad wolf. Well, you know who that is. That’s Russia. Now we find the “New York Times”, by reporters on the ground, were explaining in detail the war crimes that these bunny rabbits were committing on Russian soil. That is a sea change.

RT 7:26
Well, the vibe definitely is changing, if we may call it that. Also this Friday, Russia reported destroying four Patriot systems. At the UN, the Russian representative said the more weapons the West delivers to Ukraine, the more will be
destroyed. What are your thoughts on that?

Doctorow:
Well, I think it’s an absolute statement of fact. Among my peers, almost everyone is in agreement that any new weapons shipped to Ukraine will be destroyed very quickly, and in any case cannot help the Ukrainian cause. The list of weaponry, the Bradleys, the armored personnel carriers, the tanks — all of that which was in Biden’s list is useless in Ukraine today, because the war has changed. The most dynamic part of the war is drone warfare. And heavy mechanized equipment, like what was in the Biden list, hides in forests today, because it would be blasted to pieces if it comes out in the open field.

8:32
So the war has changed. The Biden list of equipment to be shipped to the Ukraine is utterly useless. And the Patriots, of which there’s been so much reporting — as you say, they’ve been destroyed by the Russians. They are vulnerable to Russia’s most advanced missiles and they will not save the Ukrainian army.

RT:
Gilbert Doctorow, former visiting scholar at Harriman Institute, Columbia University, thank you so much for this analysis.

Doctorow: 9:10
My pleasure.