Transcription submitted by a reader
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZMub8zcb4s
Jawad Husain, Espoir et Dignite: 0:00
Good morning, everyone. Today we have the great honor of speaking with Dr. Gilbert Doctorow, a respected political analyst and writer on international affairs, especially Russia and Europe. We will ask him about the current tensions between Europe and Russia, the role of the United States and the future chances for peace. My first question, Dr. Doctorow, why do you think Europe is so invested in the idea of a final and total confrontation with Russia?
Doctorow:
Europe discovered after the first six months, eight months of the special military operation which began in February, 2022, that Russia is a much more formidable military force than it had imagined.
1:04
And when it looked around, it looked in the mirror at itself, it understood that it is naked. It has virtually no modern armies in Europe, if you take out NATO, by which I mean if you take out the American component. The Europeans are unable to defend themselves. This didn’t just happen accidentally, it happened because there was no reason to defend themselves after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the accommodation with the new Russian Federation, which wanted very much to become integrated into Europe and into the Western world.
1:46
It didn’t play out that way. The Americans decided to take maximum advantage of their situation as the only surviving superpower after 1992. And they used the 1990s to economically destroy Russia with very good advice, they said, on transition from the communist centralized economy to a market economy, the result being shambles was left. Most of industry in Russia was destroyed, and the rest went into the hands of some rich people whom we call oligarchs.
2:26
That was the outcome of the ’90s, and it took some time for Europeans and for Americans to understand that Russia under its new president, Putin, was capable of and was in fact restoring its strength. Of course, being half the size and population of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation could not be the equal in terms of economic output and other parameters, but it was doing very well since it had no dependencies to feed.
That is to say, Russia’s kind of colonial relationship with its Warsaw Pact countries no longer existed. It did not have to give subventions in cheap supplies to those countries and receive back shoddy commercial merchandise. So Russia was paradoxically strengthened by getting rid of its empire, and it became as it demonstrated particularly in year two of the Special Military Operation, when it slaughtered the Ukrainians’ so-called counteroffensive, which had all the weight of the United States and NATO countries behind it, and the Ukrainians were destroyed.
3:46
This vision of a big neighbor whom they had been poking in the eye for more than a decade, and being militarily vastly more powerful in conventional weapons than they were, frightened them out of their boots. And when you are afraid, one of the normal emotional responses is hate. And hate took hold in the leadership of the European EU member states to the point where they were fanning Russophobia, Russia hatred, from the towering heights of power.
And that is how you have– to their surprise, to the European surprise, Donald Trump won the elections last year, and he came in with a policy that placed primary emphasis on an accommodation with Russia, on recognition that the war was lost, and to move on to areas of cooperation with Russia in geopolitical terms, which the United States deemed important. That is to say, to change the balance of power and relationship with China by way of removing Russia from China’s arms and WArm embrace.
5:06
So the Americans started making movements away from the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, and the Europeans doubled down and insisted on continuing the war, because it would keep in power those who had got Europe into the war; and they would not be shown up to have made wrong bets and to be on the wrong side of history. So that is how we got to today. Europeans have been encouraged by the Biden administration to support Ukraine in every possible way, which they did. And now Donald Trump was doing the opposite and renouncing such policies and they were left hanging in the air. That’s how we got to [today].
Husain: 5:54
Okay, thank you sir. How would you describe the present relationship between Russia and Europe?
Doctorow:
Terrible. The Europeans under the, shall we call it leadership, of the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, are collectively committing suicide. There are only two sane members among the leadership in Europe, and they are Fico in Slovakia and Orbán in Hungary. It’s not that they are Russia friends. It’s just that they would like to live. And the leaders in the other 25 countries seem to be betting on suicide.
Economically, Europe is going down the drain. I live in Belgium. It’s a small country. And this small country, like many other small countries in the EU, is largely dependent on a strong German economy to maintain its export business and generally for its economic prosperity. Germany is now in the second year of recession. Germany has slipped from being the fourth largest economy to behind Russia.
7:13
Russia has now taken over from Germany the lead as the largest economy in Europe. And this has happened because the Germans have been at the forefront of the proxy war against Russia and with sanctions, and they have allowed their economy to be destroyed by their renouncing Russian energy supplies. That is the situation today. The Europeans, unfortunately, European leadership doesn’t care a whit about their populations or prosperity. They only care about keeping their seats in power.
And by maintaining the war in Ukraine, they have the argument that we need, that Europe needs strong leadership, meaning we, and that we will stay in power to look after your security. That’s what they’re saying. In fact, they are destroying that security by preparing for a war with Russia in 2029. They believe that they can dictate when the war will start, when they’re ready. That’s dead wrong. The Russians will not let that happen.
Husain: 8:27
If I follow on with that, President Trump has spoken about a peace initiative. He’s been on this track of normalizing relations with Russia. Do you believe such an initiative can bring real chances for peace, considering your answer to the previous questions, that the Europeans are not prepared to make peace with Russia and they want to continue the war against Russia?
Doctorow:
Well, I think we’ve seen in the last two days during the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit that Europe geopolitically counts for nothing, nothing whatsoever. It’s just the leaders refuse to face that bare fact.
As for Mr. Trump and making peace, generally whatever Mr. Trump says, I treat with great caution. I follow what Mr. Trump does, not what Mr. Trump says. And that’s not because he is badly organized or confused or doesn’t know what he wants. No, it’s because he lives in a political environment which is populated by enemies to the policies that he wants. I don’t mean personal enemies, although there are plenty of them among the other aspirants for power, as always is the case in any country, but political enemies, people who oppose what he is trying to do.
9:58
And what he’s trying to do is in fact make peace, but not at the level of solving the dispute and little war between India and Pakistan or doing something nice in Africa. No. Or being a mediator in the Ukraine-Russia war, which is nonsense, of course, because in fact, the United States is a co-belligerent. Co-belligerents, normally, are not mediators.
What he is trying to do is to destroy the bloc system. He is doing his best without being conspicuous about it, because if he were conspicuous and if he spoke openly and truly about it, he would be impeached. The American political establishment does not agree with what his foreign policy intentions are. His foreign policy intentions are to break the United States out of the blocs.
We saw this in his attack, his tariff attack on India. People say, “Oh, it won’t work. Oh, we were losing our good friends in India.”
Nonsense. He had one intention, and it looks like he got what he wanted, namely for India to withdraw from the quadrilateral arrangement in the Indo-Pacific, which the United States has been building for the last 25 years, for the purposes of containing and possibly fighting China. One of the first things that Mr. Modi did was to withdraw active participation in the quadrilaterals.
11:29
In fact, even Mr. Trump is saying, well the rumor is, that he will not go to the next quadrilateral summit. So in that case, in the Indo-Pacific, where there is no big structure approved by the Senate that he has to overturn, Mr. Trump is undoing America’s involvement in a bloc that’s aimed at fighting China.
He is intent on reducing American participation in NATO, which will effectively destroy NATO. It removes the reason for its existence. But he cannot be open about this, as I said, or he would develop enormous resistance. And so he’s speaking double-talk, as we say in colloquial English, out of both sides of his mouth. But I don’t listen– that’s why I don’t listen to what he says, I watch what he does.
Husain: 12:24
Thank you very much, Dr. Doctorow, for sharing your valuable insights with us today. Before we close, we would like to remind our audience of your latest book, “War Diaries, The Russian-Ukraine War, Volume 1, 2022-2023”. We highly recommend it to all those who want a deeper understanding of this important subject. And finally, dear viewers, if you enjoyed this interview, please support our channel by subscribing, liking and sharing our contact content. Your support helps us continue bringing you valuable discussions like this one. Thank you very much, sir.
Doctorow: 13:07
My pleasure.
Gilbert Doctorow 