Transcript submitted by a reader
https://www.mgtow.tv/watch/sanchez-effect-dr-gilbert-doctorow-trump-s-playbook-a-masterclass-in-confusion_DXPcqxRBgbjUY3z.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CroGgJxPEbU
Orban: 11:55 (English voice over)
Europe, as we knew and loved it, is over. If we deny this, we lose time. If we say it out loud, we gain time.
Sanchez:
Wow, has the post-World War II model lost its way? Is it too late to get it back? That’s what Orban seemed to be saying, but in stronger words than I just repeated. Our guest today has written countless books on this subject. His books include War Diaries, Stepping Out of Line, Does the U.S. Have a Future, Does Russia Have a Future, and many, many more.
Here, historian, international thinker, and writer, Dr. Gilbert Doctorow is good enough to join us. Wow, that was quite a mouthful, not for me, but for Mr. Orban. Lilliputians, bankrupt, wars, they’re finished. Wow. Is he right about Europe, doctor?
Doctorow: 12:52
Yes and no. Under the present administration of von der Leyen, yes, this is a very apt description. However, she’s not going to remain in power forever. And there are some well-informed members of the European Parliament who have shared with me their view that she may not last six months. It’s also possible she may not last two weeks.
There are now pending two votes of no confidence against von der Leyen, one of them initiated precisely by Mr. Orban and his group of deputies in the European Parliament, the Patriots for Europe. These are accusing her of violating the Constitution, of having lack of transparency in the way she governs.
So if von der Leyen falls, which is, I wouldn’t say likely, but it’s possible in the near future, then she will be replaced by people who will be far more circumspect. I don’t mean to say that the balance of power within the European Parliament and in the European institutions will change overnight, but it will be on the way towards change, and it can virtually only change for the better.
14:07
As for Europe’s viability, I believe it’s there. But it’s possible only if Europe goes back to where it was in the 1990s as a peace project and not in the new millennium as a war project.
Sanchez: 14:22
Let me ask you the question that my editors would ask me when I told them that something is likely to happen and it’s going to be big news. How good are your sources that are telling you that von der Leyen is on the way out?
Doctorow:
Well, it’s not wild speculation. There were several weeks ago, and I forget, within the last two months, there was a vote of no confidence, which she survived.
Sanchez:
Yes.
Doctorow:
But she held on by her fingertips. I understand that there was a one-vote swing, which left her in power. And if the mood has continually deteriorated, with respect to her popularity, standing, credibility in the parliament, then she’ll lose the next vote. As I say, that’s not going to cure all, but it’s a good start, towards cure. And what is at issue is Europe being, as I say, a war project, because it has taken over geopolitics as its uniting factor, whereas in the 1990s it was the economics and cultural dimension which gave Europe unity.
Sanchez: 15:28
So essentially it’s become an entity that is into wars, Afghanistan, Belgrade, Iraq, et cetera. It has become aggressive and very tied to the military establishments that surround themselves with that entity. Is that part of what you’re intimating has been their downfall?
Doctorow:
Exactly. They have made the bogeyman Russia the uniting factor. It is meant to keep in power those who are now ruling Europe. Let’s be frank about it. We’re talking about a very common element of politics, and that is to hold on to the spoils of power at all price. European countries, by and large, are run by coalition governments, which are a formula for corruption and for incompetence, which, corruption and incompetence, are two sides of the same coin. Parties get together for the sake of grabbing and holding power, and they have no consistency in their policies, because they have dealt out to parties with conflicting interests and conflicting programs, ministerial portfolios, to have a majority of seats in the parliaments. So it is a situation where Europe, country by country, will have to reconsider the basis for elections and allocation of a formation of governments. That’s a separate but related issue.
Sanchez:
But when you hear Orban talk about it, he talks about layoffs and high inflation and wages are really low and migrants all over the place and the populace that’s unhappy. How did that become the overflow product of this situation that you were just describing to us. Did they, you know– there’s an expression in America, as you know, you and I are both Americans. The term is you “take your eye off the ball”. Have they taken their eye off the ball, the people that they’re supposed to serve?
Doctorow:
Well, it took some time to reach the dismal state they’re in now. As regards the illegal immigrants, refugees, as they were called at the time. This takes us back to 2014, 2015, and the gross mistake of Angela Merkel to open the doors of Europe to these supposedly kind ladies with little children who were fleeing the civil war in Syria. That was a very nice story for the progressive press in Western Europe.
It was now quite– lie. And the present Minister of Defense in the Belgian government, Theo Franken, he wrote a very fine book about 2016, _Europe Without Borders_, which described in great detail the fraud that was perpetrated on the European peoples, since it was not nice, kindly ladies with little children who came in. And it was not Syrians as such. It was Afghanis. It was North Africans. It was all kinds of very muscular young men who came as economic refugees, not war refugees.
Sanchez: 18:56
Before it’s all said and done, before we leave Europe– because I want to ask you about the United States, and I want to ask you about Russia and Ukraine. There’s so many things to talk about, including some of the things that are going on with India and Israel as well, but– maybe the final question when it comes to Europe is, will, if there is a change– and let us suppose that your sources and your sense of things is correct, and your sense of things is usually correct because you’re one of the most respected people in this business– and von der Leyen is out, what are the probabilities that whoever or whatever replaces her in the European power structure will be more level-headed and will not do things like wanting eternal war with Russia and wanting to constantly engage in more and more wars, etc.? What are the chances of that?
Doctorow: 19:57
There are several factors here. I started this discussion pointing to the European institutions. The opposition to von der Leyen is partly or even importantly on geopolitical considerations. And that is why it is of greatest interest to myself and to others who are following developments in Europe.
This is not the only factor that can bring about change. We have the two locomotive countries from the beginning of the European institutions, that is France and Germany, both are faltering. Both have the possibility of changing government in the foreseeable future, as opposed to the constitutionally recommended periods of service. England also has a very weak government.
20:47
So, if you put together the possibility the fall of Macron, he has royal powers under the French Constitution, but even royalty can find itself on the way out, even if they’re not facing a guillotine. The government of Macron is hanging by a hair. And if he cannot maintain his own position, then there will be a change, a dramatic change in France, which will bear upon the overall geopolitical stance of Europe.
In Germany, Mr. Merz looks very solid. He was very proud that in the West German Laender, the states, federal states of Germany, had elections in the last 10 days. His party held its own. However, his coalition partner, that is the socialist SPD, they lost significantly to the Right parties of the Alternative fur Deutschland.
Sanchez:
Or Russian.
Doctorow:
If you lose your coalition, then you lose your government.
Sanchez:
Yeah.
Doctorow:
And you’re out and have to face elections. And he will not survive a new election in Germany, because he’s very unpopular, as became apparent after he took office. So it is possible in both of these locomotive countries of the European Union that there will be changes of government in the foreseeable future, all of which would promote and redirect the European institutions, because these countries are leaders within the European Council, which is the second executive body alongside the commission within Europe.
Sanchez: 22:27
Yeah, all three of them have horrible approval numbers, by the way. I mean, not just horrible, dismal, like in the low 20s. And by the way, just to make sure I heard you correct, you said that Macron is not hanging by a thread, but hanging by a head?
Doctorow:
Hanging by a hair, well, might as well say by a thread, yes.
Sanchez:
Okay, I was thinking of French history there for just a moment. Good line either way. Let’s talk our country, the United States of America. What gives? I can’t help but look at the situation and scratch my head in a different place every day. I’m going to give myself a sore trying to figure out what is the intent? What is the actual strategy? Have you figured it out?
Doctorow:
Well, I have. I’ve paid a price in terms of the general public reading my works or listening to me. I’m doing better these days than, say, six months ago. Six months ago, I was called an apologist for Putin. Now I’m called an apologist for Trump. I suppose that’s progress.
The point is that I see logic in Mr. Trump in what he does, not what he says. What he says is intended to confuse, to keep all of his opponents both domestically and foreign, off balance, and to avoid their coming at him with a hatchet. So he has successfully confused many of my peers in alternative media.
Sanchez:
Including me. Including me. Hands up over here, by the way.
Doctorow:
They point to the contradictions as if he is mindless and does what is proposed to him by the last person to whisper in his ear. I absolutely [disagree] with that. He has his priorities and his direction.
His first priority is establishing some normal relationship with Russia for a number of reasons, which we probably don’t have time to discuss, but they are rational, rational logic to this. And he is doing what he can in very difficult circumstances. By that I mean he is surrounded by opponents to his policy. The Congress basically is opposed to his policy of some kind of normalization with Russia. And of course, Europe is now all against it and has, in the last week, launched yet another program to draw to its side Mr. Trump.
25:06
And I mean now this discussion of the drone attacks on Poland, Romania; and the Estonian complaints that Russian fighter jets violated their airspace. All of this is nonsense. If you want to go back to basics, what those drones were, whether it was possible at all to fly across the Baltic without violating NATO space, given the realities of the narrowness of the Baltic Sea and the countries lining it, being NATO members. In any case, my point is that the Russians have been described as aggressors in the last week, all in an attempt to turn Mr. Trump around.
Well, they won’t. The man is not for turning, but he is for lying, for deceiving, and for giving hope to his enemies that he will do what they want, which he will not. So it is a waiting game. The message that I see from Mr. Trump to Mr. Putin is to get it over with quickly. That is the message.
Sanchez: 26:18
I’m wondering, in hearing you say that about Mr. Trump, whether you believe—and I think this is important, so let me just try and get it on the record from you, because a lot of people heard you mention as an aside what just happened with Poland, and I haven’t quite even figured it out.
Do you think it’s a canard, a red herring? Do you think it’s just errant drones that suddenly may or may not have been the fault of Russia that ended up in Polish airspace? And should we not then ask ourselves if Russia was really interested in doing something with Poland or to Poland, which I don’t think they are. I think they have no interest in Poland or Europe, who would? They would have done it full force, not with three or four errant drones.
27:10
That’s just what I’m thinking, not necessarily as a studied journalist on this issue who’s talked to sources, but rather as somebody who just looks at it and says, this doesn’t make sense to me. What’s your take?
Doctorow:
Well, to go back to the beginning, my own understanding of what was happening has changed over the last 10 days or so, as new information came out and as new accusations against Russia came on. Initially it looked like this was, these were drones sent by Ukraine into Polish territory for the sake of provoking a Russia-Polish war, and which would immediately become a broader Russia-NATO war, moving from proxy to genuine kinetic war.
That was over, that was bypassed by further information. First of all, we learned from Polish authorities, Polish news sources, that Belarus had communicated with the Polish military while those drones were flying over Belarus territory informing the– well, I have posted the links to the Polish news agencies– giving the Poles time to act. If Russia were the source of these, of the [drones] it is excluded totally that Belarus would be communicating information to warn them.
Sanchez:
They’re allies with Russia.
Doctorow:
We have to [assume].
28:40
Secondly, people have done research into what the drones were. They were found to be not kamikaze drones, but the type of drone that Russia has used in swarm attacks on various Ukrainian sites. These are to attract or distract the air defenses from the primary attack drones and missiles. It was known that the Ukrainians had been collecting downed drones of this variety.
And they did. Some of them do go down by electronic warfare they’re brought down, and or they crash. And since they had no explosives, which was the important fact, they would just fall and break up. They could be reassembled, were reassembled by the Ukrainians for use in this contingency. All of that was defined at the level of a Ukraine-Polish interaction.
However, the plot had thickened in the last week or so; then there were the so-called attacks on Romania, further aggravating the case against Russia as an aggressor. And now we have the culmination in the last few days, the supposed violation of Estonian airspace by Russian military jets.
Well, we have to look at the timing of all of this. All of this comes in the middle or at the end of Zapad 25, the West 25 military exercises of Belarus and Russia with very large-scale participation, more than 100, 000 Russian soldiers in action, sites all over the place from Murmansk in the north, down to the southwest of Russia, and in the [Baltic Sea].
30:30
This of course was an important event staged in part to show the military prowess of Russia to the 25 visiting delegations, many of them Global South, prospective security partners of Russia and purchasers of Russia military hardware.
Now, the West reacted. How did they react? By this canard, as you called it, false flag activity, which has a number of objectives. One of them has been to call for united Ukrainian, Polish dash NATO action, securing a wall against Russian drones using Ukrainian technology and hardware to help the West European countries defend themselves against Russian drones.
31:24
At a price less than what happened in this Polish incident, where the Poles sent aloft fighter jets that cost several million euros each, that fire missiles that cost $500,000 each to down drones that cost $20,000 each.
So this was one big end result of all of these various efforts, starting with the false flag drone attack on Poland. And now it reached the highest level in the case of the Estonian charges meant to influence Donald Trump.
Sanchez:
That’s amazing. The explanation that you just gave is the best that I’ve heard since I’ve been watching this situation. And I’m here in Moscow.
And sometimes, you know, things get muddy because a lot of people talk at once. But in the end, the takeaway from all of this is Russia was flexing its muscle, doing military exercises and inviting global south countries and countries from all over the world. They probably would have been happy to see even NATO countries come. Here’s what we got. We’ll be happy to show you. You can buy it if you want, for the right amount of money.
32:38
NATO, EU, that power structure saw what Russia was doing and said, we have to create a distraction. We have to create, as you said, a false flag. We have to create something to make people think that Russia is actually getting ready to invade Europe. If Biden had been president, he would have held a news conference and said, “We’ve got to be on the alert because Russia is getting ready to invade Europe.”
Instead, we heard it from Rutte, but we didn’t hear it from Donald Trump. Going back to your original point, maybe Donald Trump is a little smarter than we give him credit for.
Doctorow:
I think he has good advisors. In the memorial service for Charlie Kirk yesterday, we had a good glimpse of what kind of advisors and what quality advisors Trump has had around him. And that is first quality.
That is an extraordinarily capable man of great intelligence, who obviously was providing to Trump the information on what is going on at American universities, since he traversed the country many times each year and had installed his Turning Point units in 2,000 American universities and colleges. That is on that domain. I believe he had similar competence in his advisors for foreign policy and what is going on in Russia. I have taken issue with my peers and intelligence experts who appear on some very widely known programs based in Washington and elsewhere, and who keep on insisting that Trump is in the dark. He’s not in the dark at all. We’re more likely in the dark than he’s in the dark.
Sanchez: 34:13
So you’re talking about Jeffrey Sachs and Mearsheimer and Ritter and Napolitano and Daniels and some of these guys who are wonderful people, by the way, really good communicators, great shows, but they tend to lean on the side that Trump’s getting really, really bad information and he should have made Macgregor his defense secretary.
Doctorow:
Well, I won’t make any comments on Macgregor, who iss obviously a very competent and experienced man, but I’m not sure I would like to see him as the defense minister. As regards Mr. Sachs, I would put him apart from the other men you’ve mentioned, because he is a globalist. And that is something that everybody who praises him for his wonderful stance on US foreign policy and its violations of international law, they ignore the fact that Jeffrey Sachs is a backer of globalism, which is the reason why the United States is such a violator of international law.
Sanchez: 35:13
Can we talk Israel for a little bit? Canada, UK, Australia came out today and said they recognize officially Palestine as a state. I’m wondering whether they know that they’d already done that during the Oslo Accord, or at least that was my reading of it, so [I’m] kind of shocked that everybody’s making such a big deal out of it. So I guess my question to you, is it a big deal?
Doctorow: 35:38
Well, it cannot be a big deal if no one is taking any action against Israel to prevent the annexation of the West Bank. I think that’s a much bigger deal than these countries coming out and acknowledging the non-existent Palestinian government.
There is no government. It’s a nice statement. It is certainly hurtful to Israel, but it does not contribute to ending the genocide in Gaza or to downing Mr. Netanyahu. I think a much more important development in the last couple of days, was the Pakistan-Saudi agreement, a mutual defense, which, if I were sitting in West Jerusalem in Israeli offices, I would be much more worried about.
36:27
That gives to the Gulf states, and to one Gulf state in particular, Saudi Arabia, finally an equalizer to Israel and its nuclear weapons.
Sanchez:
That’s a great point. Everybody talks about the Israel situation in Gaza. Everybody criticizes what Israel is doing, and by everybody I mean everybody but the United States and a few others. But nobody ever can definitively say that any of this, no matter how ruffian Israel may appear, is going to eventually affect them in a negative way.
I alluded to this earlier, I think you heard me say, props to Netanyahu, he basically is thumbing his nose at the rest of the world and said, “I don’t care what you think, and I don’t care what you say about me.” My tendency is then to ask you, what can they do to him? What can happen to him? How can he be affected by any of this?
Doctorow: 37:32
None of the great powers [has] taken any significant action against Israel, and that is China, it is Russia.
Sanchez:
Right.
Doctorow:
And I understand why. If the neighbors, if the Gulf states do nothing, except jawbone, then there is no room for outside powers to come in and do something. So that is the real state, the real situation. As for Mr. Trump, since I’ve said some very positive things about him, I’d like to put the negative side. This is a balance, of course. The negative side is his support for Israel, which enables the genocide, and not only the genocide. For example, the very widely discussed Israeli attack on Qatar. Yes, as I understand, it was enabled by American refueling of their jets, not a small detail.
38:32
The problem here is that Mr. Trump lives in a world that he didn’t make in Washington, and there are certain rules that he is stuck with. And one is not to go against the pro-Zionist Congress. If he were to act out of conscience and take any measures against Netanyahu and the genocide, he would be politically broken the next day. Therefore, in a world that has both good and evil in it, you have to make compromises.
Mr. Trump has compromised on relations with Israel, and he is seeking to accomplish something on a global level by putting aside the risk of a war with Russia.
Sanchez: 39:23
There are those who say, and I only mention this because it’s become part of the national conversation these days in the United States, that what you just said is true, but actually worse. Mr. Trump would not be broken politically, to use your words, as a result of taking on Israel in the United States. He could actually be broken physically for taking on Israel, if you get my gist. What do you think of that?
Doctorow: 39:54
I think if he doesn’t do something stupid again, that is not going to happen. What he did stupid was called out on Russian television two weeks ago, when he and J.D. Vance and much of the cabinet took a stroll over to a Washington restaurant to demonstrate how safe Washington is.
That was a very stupid thing to do. Vladimir Solovyov’s program mentioned anyone with a bomb among that group of protesters in the restaurant could have ended the US government right then and there. Now, the reason why Mr. Trump, aside from that very strange and inexplicable risk-taking that I just described in that restaurant, Mr. Trump’s best life insurance policy is called JD Vance.
40:45
Nobody in his right mind, among political malefactors, will try to remove Trump knowing that he would be replaced by a man who is still more obnoxious in the opposition to America’s conventional foreign policy than J.D. Vance.
Sanchez:
Yeah, he’s a non-Neocon. He’s a non-Neocon, right? That’s what you mean, yeah.
Doctorow:
That’s right.
Sanchez:
Huh, I’ve never looked at it that way. That’s absolutely fascinating. His best insurance is in fact JD Vance.
I got, what I got left in my mind in this feeble little tiny Cuban mind of mine. Why don’t we go to why don’t we go to India? I was fascinated last night. I was obviously watching football because it’s Sunday night in America. But I was fascinated by what Mr. Modi did. Just to all of a sudden call this emergency national address where he told his people, Swadesha, we have to do this. And he didn’t say, don’t go to McDonald’s, don’t go to Burger King, don’t drive a Chevy. But he didn’t have to. I kind of got the gist.
He was telling people, don’t buy American products. We’re going to make our own products. We might buy some stuff from the Chinese and the Russians. That was my take. What was yours?
Doctorow: 42:12
Well, he was just repeating Mahatma Gandhi. This was the basic method, don’t buy British textiles. Buy Indian hand-woven textiles. That’s where it all began. That’s where the Indian liberation movement found its footing.
So I think within India, this would have been recognized immediately, that he’s positioning himself in the tradition of Mahatma Gandhi as regards the self-, the production of goods and the purchase of goods within the country. However, that is much easier to recommend than to enforce. Russia has been through this. It was only in wartime conditions of drastic economic sanctions that Russia adapted to that type of policy of import substitution. And, of course, it was furthered by the military prowess on display, which gave a great deal of confidence to Russians that they can make things and do things.
43:25
And that is one of the big points in my book, which you made reference to, _The War Diaries_, which is largely about coming from my visits to Russia at a time when nearly all Western correspondents were not there due to the, first the covid and then to the sanctions imposed on Russia at the start of the special military operation. And what I saw was, step by step, how this was achieved, how there was the making of a nation that had confidence in itself.
And I thought back to the 1990s when I was, my wife and I were taking a taxi down the main boulevards of St. Petersburg and the driver said, “And by the way, we Russians make very cute kids, but not such good cars.” That self-deprecation, that inferiority complex, which was well established in the broad Russian public, has evaporated.
Sanchez:
It has.
Doctorow:
And there’s great pride in Russia’s ability to produce very good consumer good products.
Sanchez:
Yeah.
Doctorow:
And of course to feed itself magnificently as it is doing now. So India has to have a bit more pressure on it for the public to follow Mr. Modi’s advice.
Sanchez:
I, it’s interesting. So in many ways, what you’re saying is the United States has replaced the British in the mindset of the contemporary situation that we’re undergoing or that India is undergoing right now. If you haven’t had a chance to look at it, I would direct you to go look at my files of this show to my interview with Mr. Solyonov, who was the finance minister of Russia, because he said the very same thing.
45:11
We were having a conversation, he was sitting right here to the right of me, came in to say hi, spent a long interview, and at one point I asked him, I said, “what are you gonna do about McDonald’s?” And he says, we’ve learned to make the burgers and the cheeseburgers and the Big Macs better than theirs, and they ain’t getting them back. So anyway, it was a pride of ownership. I don’t know if you can brag about pride of ownership over a Big Mac or a Juicy Burger, whatever the hell they’re called, but it was interesting to hear him say that. To your point.
45:42
Hey, let’s finish off, doctor, with what can happen in Ukraine. My take watching this and reporting on it and doing interviews on it is that the Europeans have not moved one inch. They’ve not moved one inch in understanding what the positions of the Russians are. I think if they did give the Russians, I don’t know, 60, 75 percent of what they’re asking for, this thing could be done in– this thing could be over in 24 hours.
But they haven’t, as far as I can tell. First of all, what do you think of my take on that? And second of all, is there room for movement at some point, maybe post-von der Leyen and Rutte, you know, Merz, Macron, these other people? What do you think?
Doctorow: 46:41
Well, I think that some kind of patching up between Europe and Russia will take place. I wouldn’t want to put an exact timeline on it, but the logic is compelling, the economic logic. Also, if the locomotive countries have this collapse of the present leadership, that will give further room to the smaller countries to make their own accommodation with Russia. I’m speaking to you from Brussels. I’m a longtime resident in Brussels, long time, meaning more than 40 years. And I’ve seen a few people here and have a sense of how the country is suffering right now economically.
47:23
When you go down the main boulevards at Brussels, you see a lot of vacant retail and restaurants. The economy is suffering. People who are associated with marketing, which is the first budgetary item in all company business to be sacrificed, they tell me that the companies have slashed their marketing budget, which is an indication that Belgium is suffering from the German recession, as are the other smaller countries around Central Europe. These countries will certainly break with the von der Leyen-imposed restrictions and cancel Russia policies — as soon as von der Leyen goes, which could be very soon, and as soon as a country like France has a change of government, which is also very possible. So, but that is a very near term.
48:16
In the medium term, it is so obvious that Europe needs very badly the hydrocarbons, the gas and oil, at affordable prices, which Russia was providing, in order to be, once again, economically competitive in global markets. So, this will patch up. The Russians, that’s for the Russians. I know that many Russians who might listen to this will say I’m wrong, that they have had their fill of Europe. However, my own reading of the situation is that Russia is part of Europe intellectually, culturally, in every way.
48:59
And to say that– to deny that, is to deny the obvious. When I was, again, studying, looking over my diary entries when I was living and working in Russia in the 1990s, in the midst of destitution, the high culture performing arts, museums, symphonies, they were reconstructed, readapted to market conditions and flourished. And they are flourishing today. And let us remember that these high culture institutions, they are European institutions.
Russia was an essential contributor to European culture. Therefore, to deny this is to deny the obvious. Of course, they’ll patch up.
Sanchez: 49:43
I get a sense. I’ve been here now, I don’t know, four and a half, five months or something like that since I got here and I started covering stories, though I’ve done a lot of traveling, different parts.
My sense is, I love what you just said. I think Russians like American culture, but are born of European culture. And they can’t take that suit off. They wear it. It’s visible to me when I see it.
So that’s my take, you know, just based on observation. And it comes to me as I hear you say those words. So, wow, what a great interview. You are such a brilliant person. And your thoughts, your ideas are so provoking in so many ways.
And it seems like obviously you’re imperfect and so am I and so are we all, but So much of what you have said, doctor, has been on the money in terms of understanding these situations that we’re all embroiled in right now. Thank you so much for being my guest. You’ve been so kind to spend so much time with us talking about these things. I hope to be able to talk to you again.
Doctorow: 50:57
It was very kind of you to invite me, and I’ve enjoyed this as much as you have.
Sanchez:
Oh, thank you so much, Dr. Gilbert Doctorow. What a pleasure. What a great author. Buy his books, my God. Listen to that man.
That’s it from us. I got a podcast. It’s called Journalistically Speaking because I believe in journalism, because I am a journalist and because I think it’s an important craft and it’s about truth. Also, oh yeah, we’re on X a lot, all over X these days.
I mean, I’m also on Apple and Spotify. I’m all over the place, but we do a lot of really good stuff on X, and our crew’s really commanding some unbelievable conversations with you. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for letting us into your home. God bless.
51:42
Take care. We’ll see you next time.
Gilbert Doctorow 