Transcript of CNN18 (India) interview of 1 September

Transcript submitted by a reader

CNN News18: 0:00
–the big summit that’s taken place in Tianjin on the sidelines of the SCO summit from Mr. Modi and even the Russian President Vladimir Putin held two significant bilateral meetings that have reaffirmed the enduring strength and depth of the India-Russia strategic relationship. Both leaders have emphasized the multi-dimensional nature of this partnership, a time-tested one at that, which spans critical sectors, which are mainly defense, energy, trade, and technology.

And President Putin has described the ties between the two nations as principled, even multifaceted, noting that over the years the relationship has evolved into a robust framework for cooperation. Echoing these sentiments, Prime Minister Modi has described his interactions with President Putin as always memorable, underscoring the continuous high-level engagement between the two nations.

0:51
While Prime Minister Modi has also reiterated India’s constructive role within the SCO framework, especially when it comes to combating terrorism, even disrupting terror financing in a notable diplomatic snub. Pakistan’s Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif has appeared isolated during this entire summit. Prime Minister Modi left for New Delhi after a successful China-Japan tour. So all in all, this past week has felt only diplomatic triumph for New Delhi. But let’s also listen in to what Prime Minister Modi had to say in his plenary session at the SCO.

Modi: 1:32 [UNCONFIRMED TRANSLATION]
I would like to say that security, peace and security are the basis of any country. But in this path, terrorism, terrorism and terrorism are big challenges. Terrorism is not only a threat to the country, but also a simple challenge for full independence. It is not just a challenge for the country, but a challenge for the entire humanity. The role of the SCO Reds is important. At this time, India has led the Joint Information Operation, initiative.

We have supported the organization and have also supported the Indian government for four decades to create the terrorism. So many mothers lost their children and so many children were–

CNN News18: 3:27
Gilbert Doctorow, who is an author, also specializes in Russian relations, is joining me live on the broadcast. Many thanks to you, Gilbert, for joining in on CNN News 18. We just heard some very critical points being made by the Indian Prime Minister in his plenary session at the SCO, especially when it comes to condemning terrorism and double standards on terrorism. Before I deep-dive into the bilateral that’s taken place between Prime Minister Modi and President Putin, share your thoughts on how India has come down on the issue of terrorism.

Also not to forget that the SCO declaration has managed to condemn the Pehelgam terror attack as well this time around, which India is of course seeing as a diplomatic thing.

Doctorow: 4:07
The Shanghai Cooperation Organization unites Eurasia. Eurasia has many common interests. Eurasia also has differences, some of which led to armed conflict, as the recent clash between Pakistan and India illustrated. It would be unrealistic to expect that 20, 25 countries would all see the same views, would all have the same positions on most everything.

And so it is that there is conflict among the some of the member states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Nonetheless, it was extremely important that the declaration today condemned the attack in Punjab and the terrorism which emanates, as everyone knows, from Pakistan. That was an important victory. I would say for India in the group. Sorry.

CNN News18:
You meant Kashmir, I believe, because–

Doctorow:
Ah, Kashmir, yes. Yes, you’re correct. The point is that this was a diplomatic victory for India and theres good reason for Mr. Modi to be proud of it.

CNN News18: 5:22
What is your understanding of the bilateral relationship between Moscow and New Delhi at a time when Donald Trump is accusing India and Prime Minister Modi of funding Putin’s war chest, calling Ukraine as Modi’s war.

Prime Minister, on the other hand, has in fact, of course, called upon the Russian president urging him to bring peace or to choose peace, rather. And that’s been his stance always when he said that this is not an era of war, something he reiterated this time around. But Russia has been equally respectable and mindful of the Indian Prime Minister’s views on the war.

Doctorow: 6:03
I think the basic common view of international relations among the member states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization is realism, the realistic school. In the realistic school, countries look after their own national interests.

And national interests do collide. The case of India with respect to the United States and Russia is a case in point. India has strong commercial attachment to the United States, has been partly dependent on the United States for various arms deliveries. It has also had both strong commercial and military geopolitical interests shared with Russia.

6:48
So these sides have traditionally been in a balance. India has walked a tightrope, I would say, for decades and decades. And that is nothing new. What is new, of course, is Mr. Trump’s destruction of 25 years of American diplomacy with respect to India to bring it into a grouping for containment of Chinese expansion and economic growth. And that is the important outcome of his tariffs, the tariffs on India, which have attracted a lot of attention, but I think have been misunderstood.

My reading of Mr. Trump is that he is actively destroying the supports for United States hegemony and global domination. That is his intent. We will only know if that is the case 10, 20 years from now when archives are open. In the meantime, this is a supposition which I urge you to consider.

CNN News18: 7:46
You’ve in fact made a very critical point over there because many are talking about how Trump has overnight almost dismantled this 25 years of a painstakingly created relationship between New Delhi and Washington, one that was managed through various bipartisan efforts.

And I’m going to quickly bring in my correspondent, Siddhant, who also is joining us from the newsroom. So Siddhant, when you look at the way the White House has been reacting, what is one to make of that, given that many have said that if it was Biden who pushed Russia towards China, it is Trump who is pushing India towards China?

Siddhant: 8:26
Well, yes, that’s right Akanksha. But also Akanksha would like to add what you just said, what I could read from the statements that are coming, that we are getting to hear from the senior Trump officials.

So as far as the policy level is concerned Akanksha, those individuals are really committed to continuing the relationship with India and perhaps giving efforts to improve ties. Why I am saying this, because just last week we had two plus two official level dialogue with the United States, and perhaps that the release, this is a State Department’s release which did mention, which has mentioned of Quad and deepening cooperation in nuclear energy, compact was also mentioned, etc. etc.

9:16
But when it comes to people around president Trump, when it comes to people like Peter Navarro, hardcore MAGA people, then their commentary, their remarks are below the belt. They are doing everything to spoil this relationship. So as I said you know I won’t say that everybody in the US administration right now is kind of giving efforts to spoil the relationship. There are people, there are strategic experts Akanksha, many are speaking to you and other of our colleagues here in the newsroom and in fact you know they really want to, you know, continue with the relationship, and they want this relationship to grow. So, you know, so that’s what I could understand from the Trump administration and the US administration at this point.

CNN News18: 10:08
I want to take that point forward with Gilbert as well. Gilbert, Siddhant has made a very significant point over there. Donald Trump’s view is perhaps not the wider view of the United States. And I want to quote what the US embassy has gone on to talk about. In fact, soon after Peter Navarro’s statement shook all of India as we woke up, when he in fact again attacked India’s Prime Minister, he’s also tried to create a wedge in terms of the cast.

In fact, I wouldn’t even want to go where he has been. It’s the lowest ebb of the kind of rhetoric we’ve seen come out of White House. But the US Embassy in India has sent out a very heartening statement which talks about India and the US relationship being at the forefront of the 21st century relationship. They’ve also in fact sent out a quotation of Marco Rubio that says that “the enduring friendship between our two people is the bedrock of our cooperation and propels us forward as we realize the tremendous potential of our economic relationship.” So Gilbert, I want to bring you in on this divided view of India within the Trump administration.

And it’s clearly to do with MAGA versus the ones who are at the helm of affairs in the White House. What is your view, and what could be the impact of this for the Republicans ahead in the years ahead?

Doctorow: 11:30
There’s only one view that counts in the US White House, and that is Mr. Trump’s. I would not listen to anything that Mr. Rubio says regarding relations with India, because he is not making the policy. His boss is. The point is that Mr. Trump is not aimless, is not changing views from day to day. He is a student of Henry Kissinger, {however] much that may surprise your audience.

He has followed– and this was clear in his first term in office in the first year when he did, when his national securities strategy was issued. This was a Kissinger policy. Henry Kissinger’s fingerprints were all over Mr. Trump’s thinking then, and [I think] that persists today. India will have good relations with the United States after this spat is ended, but it will not continue in the creation of a quadrilateral grouping in the Indo-Pacific.

It will not be part of a block that is directed against China. And that is precisely what Mr. Trump’s tariff attack on India is all about.

CNN News18: 12:42
But, and that’s why I want to bring you in. Has the tariff attack exposed the US hypocrisy? Because they want to accuse us of war profiteering. What about the war profiteering that the US is doing through companies like Lockheed Martin in Ukraine?

Doctorow:
Don’t listen to words. Look at actions. Mr. Trump’s words are intended to deceive everyone, particularly his opponents, domestically and abroad. They are not the pointers to his actions. He will come back to India, but he is not coming back to the quadrilateral. You will note the latest reports are that he will not attend the quadrilateral summit.

13:21
That is his point. He wants to end blocs, and he wants to recreate– as Mr. Kissinger indicated in his 1994 book, “Diplomacy”– he wants to recreate the pre-World War I situation in global governance, where there was multi-plurality, where there were individual states, including powerful states, that looked after their national interests, but not in blocs.

CNN News18: 13:49
Stay with me, Gilbert. I’m going to also request Siddhant to continue staying with us. Let’s also take our viewers through the key highlights from Prime Minister’s statement at the SCO summit.

In fact he’s delivered some very crucial messages especially using SCO as an acronym to begin with SECURITY. There can be no double standards on terrorism, is what Prime Minister maintained. Terrorism is a shared challenge for humanity. He said that India has seen the heinous face of terrorism in Pahelgam on 22nd of April. He also went on to say that we have to spell it out clearly, that there’s going to be no compromise on terrorism. And that any open support to terrorism by any of the countries, whether they are sponsoring it or not, is unacceptable.

14:35
As far as CONNECTIVITY, the “C” of SCO is concerned, he went on to say that connectivity that bypasses sovereignty loses trust between all the member nations. India is working on Chabahar port for connectivity, which is why Iran’s role becomes extremely crucial. And that working on international north-south transport corridor is important as well, a reminder for SCO to push that forward. These projects will boost links with Afghanistan, Central Asia as well.

15:07
As far as OPPORTUNITY is concerned, India is following the mantra of “reform, perform, transform” as well. He also went on to invite all the member states, even the ones who are in the observer position or the guest nations, to become part of India’s growth story, to become part of India’s development journey as well.

Here’s what the India big wins are, but I’m going to quickly go across to Suzanne to bring in a word as far as the big wins are concerned, let’s take you through what the SCO declaration had to state. It strongly condemned the Pehelgam terror attack to begin with.

That’s been our diplomatic victory. SCO has called for combating cross-border movement of terrorists as well. It has echoed India’s line, which says that no double standards on terrorism should be tolerated. Of course, there was a direct reference to not just Pakistan, even China, which has been aiding Pakistan with direct intelligence information, something we observed during Operation Sindhur as well as you as a firm determination to continue the fight against terrorism. It also condemned the use of terror groups for mercenary purposes as well.

16:16
Let’s quickly go back to Siddhan to continue to stay with us. Siddhan, as far as connectivity is concerned, we’ve of course touched upon terrorism. Take us through what are the expectations for India and how significant is going to be Chabahar port, given the way we are seeing disturbances in that entire region, as far as the ones surrounding Iran are concerned, not to forget even Afghanistan and the way China and the United States also now want to make inroads.

CNNNews18 – Siddhan: 16:44
Definitely, you know, connectivity is very, very important. In fact, the kind of projection India is doing for itself, the role that in fact the world wants India to play in the coming years, perhaps for that India needs to be well connected, Akanksha, whether it’s Vladivostok-Chennai corridor, whether it’s North-South transit corridor, which will give Indian goods access to markets in Afghanistan and Central Asia, whether it’s IMAC, Akanksha, there’s a lot of work that has been put in by the Indian side as far as the IMAC corridor is concerned.

17:23
So you know, connectivity is a major focus of the Indian side, has always been the major focus of the Indian side. Also, you know, when, … after the withdrawal of US troops, Akanksha, from Afghanistan, India has been sending consignment to Afghanistan time and again, its wheat, medicines, etc. And those consignments are reaching Afghanistan via Chabahar port. So, you know, Chabahar port gets activated and via Chabahar it reaches Afghanistan. So India is using Chabahar port. In fact, there were two two agreements also which were signed last year between India and Iran. India pledged more money for the project. So connectivity is definitely a focus area of the Indian government.

CNN News18:
Gilbert, I want to quickly bring you in on the aspect of connectivity in this Trumpian climate, which has made it extremely adverse for India and Iran to operate together. Many say that had India not bowed down to Trump’s demands of reducing its oil purchases from Iran under the previous Trump administration, we could have perhaps set the benchmark much earlier. But what is your view, especially when it comes to forward movement or ensuring forward movement on the Chabahar port, given that Iran is also directly in the line of fire with Donald Trump?

Doctorrow: 18:49
Of course, this is important. Iran is very dependent on the support, both diplomatic support and economic support of fellow members of the Shanghai security organization. India has a prospect, a possibility of stepping up imports of Iranian petroleum, which would be an important assistance.

But I’d like to mention one country that you’ve omitted: Armenia. It was quite surprising that Armenia had a bilateral discussion with Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the SCO summit. And that is directly related to your interests as India in the North-South corridor, because Armenia as a big player in the in the Southern Caucasus has a decisive role in whether this succeeds.

19:44
In that respect you have to consider the Europeans, because Armenia is being directed against Russia, like France. So the situation is quite complex.

CNN News18:
It’s also of advantage to India, given that Armenia is a direct counter to Azerbaijan, a country that has directly pledged support to Pakistan also during Operation Sindhu.

Doctorow:
Yes, these are very complex relations. Fortunately, a forum like SCO provides the opportunity for these various leaders to meet and to meet in rapid succession with one another. So that what is discussed between Putin and Pashinyan then becomes a subject for discussion between the Armenians and the Indians [or both persons].

CNN News18: 20:37
Absolutely. I’m going to request you to continue staying with me, Gilbert, a host of talking points, some in fact highlighted by you as well, which we perhaps couldn’t touch upon, Armenia being that very significant factor. Let’s also listen in to the reactions of the Russian president and the Indian prime minister during that much talked about bilateral that took place. Let’s listen.

Modi: [TRANSLATED] 21:02
We have been in constant contact with each other. We have been in constant contact with each other. This December, for our 23rd summit, 140 crore Indian participants are waiting for you. Excellency, this is the depth and breadth of our special and privileged strategic partnership. India and Russia have always walked shoulder to shoulder.

21:26 approx:
Our close cooperation is not only important for the people of both the countries, but also for the peace, stability and prosperity of the world. Your Excellency, we have been discussing the ongoing struggle in Ukraine. We hope that all parties will move forward constructively. We will have to find a way to end the conflict as soon as possible and establish a peaceful state. This is a call of humanity.

21:53 approx:
Excellency, once again I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Of bilateral cooperation in various areas. Dear Prime Minister, dear friend, Russia and India have been supporting special relations for decades. They are friendly and trustworthy. This is the foundation for the development of our relations in the future.

And these relations have absolutely non-party nature and are supported by the overwhelming majority of the peoples of our countries.

Putin [from subtitles]: 22:25
Today’s meeting is another good opportunity to further strengthen our relations. We can say thtat our relationship is based on principles. There is multifaceted cooperation between us. There is a very trustworthy relationship between Russia and India, one that is not based on politics.

Conversation with Professor Glenn Diesen: China, Russia & India Build New World Order

My Indian broadcaster friends may take their time sharing links to videos of our panel discussions today and in the past couple of days, but here in my conversation recorded in the late afternoon today with Professor Glenn Diesen you will find most of the ideas I discussed with the Indians and then also a review of the entire question of whether Trump’s tariff war on India was an act of miscalculation and/or stupidity. Or was a well disguised measure to break up the Quadrilateral arrangements for containment of China where India was intended by Washington to play a key role?

Background information: you do not hear it on the video but several times during this interview a persistent Indian news agency journalist phoned me and the long ringing of my phone was at that point terribly distracting. Judge Napolitano is lucky just to have the occasional bark of his dog interrupt his recording sessions.

News X (India) panel discussion ahead of the SCO summit

News X (India) panel discussion ahead of the SCO summit

As noted in my last essay, the Indian broadcasters have been overloaded by their coverage of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit from a couple of days prior to its opening through its culmination with issuance of its declaration today.

I have just received from News X the link to our conversation of two days ago when I was part of a panel discussion of what may be expected from the summit.  All attention was on the impact of the new 50% tariffs that Trump had just imposed on India and my own comments here surely surprised the News X producers. However, they remained interested in my novel interpretation so that there was an important follow-on interview with them today.

CNN18 (India) panel discussion of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit

This has been a very hectic day of interviews and panel discussions with three Indian broadcasters – News X, News X World and CNN18.  The visit of their Prime Minister Modi to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit has been followed in India with at least as much attention, probably more than in Russia, where it was the number one news item on the weekly summary program last night.

Regrettably, the Indian broadcasters are so overloaded with work that they have not forwarded to me links to these programs in which I participated, with one exception so far, the link below from CNN18.

I offer this not so much for the sake of what I had to say but to share with the Community the angle of interpretation that the Indian broadcasters are using for their audiences.

This particular video was recorded before 11 am European time.  A video interview/panel discussion with News X in the mid-afternoon was remarkable for the gloating of the Indian journalist and panelists over the humiliation of Pakistan at the summit. What they have in mind is one point in the closing declaration of the summit issuing a rebuke over ‘cross-border terrorism’ that made possible a deadly attack on Indian Kashmir.  The unnamed sponsor of terrorism was, of course, Pakistan, and the incident prompted the brief Indian-Pakistani air war that Donald Trump has taken credit for resolving.

Regrettably, Indian broadcasters seem to be missing the truly historic nature of the SCO summit for their country, which lay not in the fall of Pakistan but in the prospects for a rise of their own country to a managing position in the SCO.  Let us remember that from its founding at the beginning of the new millennium, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization was primarily an instrument for Russia and China to moderate their competing interests in Central Asia and to keep out the Americans, the Europeans and other interlopers. It was focused on combatting terrorism and narcotics trading.  The working languages of the SCO were and remain Russian and Mandarin, which tells you who is running the show.

Now, with India in the midst of a painful spat with the United States, with the work of 25 years by successive American administrations to inveigle India in its scheme for building an alliance to counter Chinese growth and influence in the Indo-Pacific region shredded and in tatters, the moment has come for India to realize its nonalignment and sovereignty by assuming a leading role in the SCO.

The Summit was also historic in the expansion of the mission of the SCO from Eurasia-wide security to Eurasia-wide economic and financial management.  In his speech to the assembled guests, President Xi mentioned plans to create an SCO Development Bank and trade issues predominated in the one-on-one side meetings of participants.  That is all new.  One may compare this with BRICS, but whereas BRICS is global in scope and has some foot draggers at the top, like Brazil and South Africa, the SCO is focused on Eurasia and appears to be able to act more quickly on agreed objectives.

©Gilbert Doctorow, 2025

Transcript of one-minute interview with News X World on SCO summit, 30 August

Transcript submitted by a reader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoneF3TiqJM

Kataoka – NewsX World: 13:15
Now we move on to our guest discussion with Gilbert Doctorow. He’s a Russian affairs expert, joins us live from Brussels. Thank you very much for joining us again. Good to see you. Now, President Xi is hosting a very high-profile SCO summit this year, including Russian president. What message do you think China is hoping to send to the global community through this gathering?

Doctorow: 13:40
I think it is going to emphasize the consolidation, the growing consolidation of Eurasia and of the global South in an agenda for a multi-polar world. The fact that Putin is going to China for the SCO is in response to the Chinese president’s visit to Moscow for the 80th anniversary celebrations of the end of the war of Europe. So that is exactly a reflection of the preceding visit. Nonetheless, what we see here is an additional presence that is very important, the presence of India, of Mr. Modi, because in the past few weeks, India has found itself in a spat with the United States, which has reversed 25 years of American efforts to bring India into an anti-Chinese encirclement, a coalition against China.

14:45
That has now collapsed entirely. And I believe that these big three powers, China, Russia, and India, will be using time on the, alongside the regular meetings of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and ahead of the parade in Beijing for the 80th anniversary to discuss precisely these crucial issues of how to respond to America’s aggressive behavior and how to defend themselves against the economic warfare.

Kataoka: 15:21
Dr. Gilbert Doctorow, we will be cutting to live in China, so please stay with us and thank you for joining [us.]

Transcript of News X World interview on the Russia-Ukraine War, 20 August

Transcript submitted by a reader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtFWnlOedjA

Kataoka – NewsX World: 0:00
Thank you very much. Now we move on. But as these diplomatic exchanges unfold, Ukraine is hit by fresh violence. Overnight, Russia carried out what officials called a massive strike on Zaporizhzhia, killing at least one person and wounding 24, including two children. Homes, cafes, and industrial sites were destroyed. Ukraine’s central Dnipropetrovsk region also came under heavy attack with explosions in Dnipro, and Pavlograd. Authorities have confirmed Russian troops have now entered the region, marking a dangerous escalation in this area previously spared from fighting.

0:41
Speaking at the UN Security Council, Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Svyrydenko has condemned the attacks, declaring Russia continues to choose killing over ending the war. Let’s listen in.

Svyrydenko:
These killings are deliberate acts of terror. It’s an informed decision taken by Moscow to continue its systematic campaign to terrorize civilians and extinguish any semblance of normal life. Yesterday, Russia again responded brutally to our attempts to engage them in a civilized dialogue in the language of international law, peace, and respect for human life.

1:30
Russia continues to choose killing over ending the war. [We] still hope that this Council and its member states, who have consistently emphasized the need for cessation of the hostilities, will now show the courage to turn word into action by supporting a relevant solution on the matter.

Kataoka: 1:53
So as leaders converge in Tianjin, the human toll of the war deepens, emphasizing the stark divide between diplomacy and devastation on the ground. Now for this discussion we are joined by Gilbert Doctorow. He is a Russian affairs expert, joins us live from Brussels.

Thank you very much for staying with us and joining us again. Now with leaders meeting under the SCO framework, how realistic is it to expect that diplomatic summits can influence the course of the current Russia-Ukraine war?

Doctorow: 2:30
Well, it has already been made clear that the subject for discussion between Presidents Putin and Xi when they meet ahead of the parade in Beijing will be precisely the war in Ukraine. Of course, there are other issues, important issues, that they will be discussing, such as the decision of the big three in Europe, the UK, France, and Germany to use the provisions for reimposing sanctions on Iran, and the president of Iran will be there. There are many subjects that are topical and important.

3:09
I could say that Mr. Trump has done his best to provide the key members of the … SCO meeting and of the celebrants of the end of the war in the Pacific with talk and the possibility to address and define a common policy on these very issues. I also want to mention something that your viewers may not be expecting. It is possible that the meeting in China will have a very big surprise, a rabbit pulled out of the hat. That is to say, the Russian media are still considering that Mr. Trump may show up in Beijing for the parade. That is not to be excluded. I’d like to emphasize that this disruption, this disorder, which you in India are feeling particularly over the tariff war, is not arbitrary and is not without a foundation. The foundation is Mr. Trump’s hidden agenda to disrupt entirely the existing world order of American hegemony and to prepare the way for a multipolar world, however strange that may appear from his words, My insistence is to ignore his words and follow his actions. That he has applied these tariffs on India, just ahead of this important meeting is not an accident. It is intentional. And it is to get your presidents talking about how to deal with the United States.

Kataoka:
Yes. And that is very interesting that you’ve mentioned that a surprise guest might show up hinting to US President Donald Trump. If– we can only speculate here– but if he were to show up, do you think that this can shift the narrative at the ongoing diplomatic talks in Tianjin and maybe we might see any breakthrough? What do you think?

Doctorow: 5:13
Well, Mr. Trump has said recently in the last two weeks how much he would like to meet with Mr. Kim, how much he would like to meet with President Xi. They’re both in Beijing for this parade, and so it would be very convenient for him to be there. The European leaders, aside from Mr. Vucic in Serbia and Mr. Fico in Slovakia, the EU-25 hardliners have all declined to accept the invitation. And it would be remarkable if, and in keeping with his policies, if Mr. Trump were to show up. I can’t say that will happen, but there is a possibility that the Russians have detected and are publishing in very serious periodicals and online assets.

6:00
So Mr. Trump has destroyed what 25 years of American diplomacy have tried to do by enlisting India in a quadrilateral arrangement of countries encircling and opposing China. He has destroyed that in a few weeks. That is the real outcome of his tariff policy. The tariffs are nonsense compared to that geopolitical act, which I insist was not an accident, was not something that he missed, but it’s something that he intentionally brought about. So I think India also should rethink what Mr. Trump is doing. It is not what it appears to be.

Kataoka:
And now looking– thank you very much for sharing that– and now looking back at Ukraine and its allies, do you think there is any fatigue from the allies in Europe for Ukraine? Do you think that could eventually impact the level of military and financial aid that’s flowing now from the West?

Doctorow:
I would disagree with your generalization. Ukraine has no allies in Europe. It only has destroyers in Europe. What Europe is doing is to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.

That is not a friend or ally of Ukraine. And that has to be made clear, because we are living in a world of Orwellian double talk, where peace is war and war is peace. Think for yourselves and understand that Europe is no friend of Ukraine.

Kataoka:
Right. Thank you very much for bringing us fresh perspective and always sharing good insights from Brussels.

7:41
That was Gilbert Doctorow. This is all we have time for. We will continue to bring you more news updates from around the world and the SCO Summit.

Transcript of Press TV interview, 29 August

Transcript submitted by a reader

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2025/08/29/753998/SLAMMING-ILLEGAL-SNAPBACK

PressTV: 0:19
Hello and welcome to “Spotlight”. Iran’s ambassador to the UN has strongly rejected and condemned the E3 push to activate the snapback mechanism against Iran, which would reimpose UN sanctions on Tehran over its nuclear program. Amir Saeedi Avani said the decision undermines Iran’s cooperation with the IAEA and constitutes an unnecessary and provocative escalation. Iranian foreign minister has also issued a stern warning to the European Troika, namely France, Germany and the UK, accusing them of colluding with Israel and the United States to maliciously pressure the Iranian people. We’ll be discussing the different aspects of this snapback mechanism and more on this edition of Spotlight. Here are our guests for tonight’s show.

1:08
Independent International Affairs Analyst Gilbert Doctorow joining us from Brussels. And we also have political commentator Massoud Shadjareh joining us from the British capital, London.

1:27
Welcome to the program. Let’s start off with Mr. Massoud Shadjareh. In London, Iran has rejected the invoking of the snapback mechanism as illegal and illegitimate. Tehran says that any attempt to revive these past sanctions would be a serious blow to diplomacy and a violation of the JCPOA itself. Give us your perspective on this route taken by the E3.

Shadjareh:
It really is outrageous that after all these years, the incompetent of Europeans after Trump pulled out, out of the deal and put sanctions against Iran. European nations said Iran should stay in and they will find ways of addressing the grievance of Iran and addressing the sort of the needs and aspiration of Iran, which was supposed to be ensured under JCPOA.

2:28
But they did nothing as such. As a matter of fact, they were the cause, not just Trump, but they were the cause of undermining and making JCPOA abandoned completely, despite the fact that Iran stood by its commitment right the way through. So here at the 11th hour, to jump in and try to actually claim that there is suddenly Iran has not adhered to his commitment. It is an abuse of the process, it’s undermining the spirit of the agreement and indeed it really is what I could only describe, that is, sort of trying to change the rules halfway through, just to put further pressure and support the Zionist state, which we have seen over the almost two years, they have done so.

3:31
Even they have not just supported Zionist state, but they have supported this genocide and equipped it to be able to commit this genocide. So I think in one way we can’t sort of expect anything else, but from the other side, it really this action undermines every aspect of sort of fair play and adhering to the spirit of the JCPOA.

PressTV: 3:57
Let’s bring in Gilbert Doctorow from Brussels. Mr. Doctorow, Iran’s foreign minister has called the activation of the snapback mechanism immoral, unjustified and unlawful.

Please walk us through these main talking points about the snapback activation. In addition to that, Iran’s UN envoy Amir Saeedi Ravani earlier said the decision undermines Iran’s cooperation with the IAEA and constitutes an unnecessary and provocative escalation.

Doctorow: 4:29
Well, this news item that you are now raising is getting attention even of mainstream in the West. “Financial Times” reported precisely on this issue of Iran being prepared to stop its cooperation with the International Atomic Agency if the snapback proceeds. At the same time, I would say that this is occurring at a propitious moment for Iran, because you will have every opportunity to consult with close friends and allies in the coming several days in China.

5:05
Your delegation is taking part in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization annual meeting. I believe your presence will be there. And surely they will find the time with Mr. Putin and perhaps with other important decision makers who will be there of the 26 countries taking part. You’ll have an opportunity to go over what remedies that Iran may have to strike back against this discriminatory and unjustified decision, which appears to be made in Europe.

PressTV 5:49
Masoud Shadjareh, earlier today, Iran’s UN envoy, Mr. Amir Saeedi Avani, called on other UNSC members to defend the rule of law and act responsibly. What should other members of the UNSC be doing in this regard?

Shadjareh:
Well, I think this implementation of switching this procedure, it has much more fundamental impact than what it will, impact that it will have on Iran. The reality is that it sort of makes mockery of any sort of negotiation or diplomacy or international law.

The reality is that, you know, if they could change the law, if they could abuse any agreement, clear agreement in this way, then they could do it to anybody else. And basically it’s a signal, as I was saying earlier on, that they will change the law of the game, in the middle of the game, just to implement their wishes and abuse the principles. Here, by doing so, they’re abusing principles of diplomacy, principles of fair play.

7:11
You know, every aspect of international relations is undermined because everyone, everyone could see how unfair it is, how abusive it is and how it’s been designed just to provoke. And I think no international body, no matter what part of the world they are, they can no longer trust agreements, like JCPOA and other agreements, internationally, if indeed this one be abused so clearly, so openly and so publicly. I agree with my colleague, the other contributor, that we have to wait and see what China and Russia and other nations are going to do. But the fact is this: that I believe there is a lot more at stake than just what is happening in Europe.

PressTV: 8:06
Mr. Doctorow, would you like to add anything to that? In that regard, actually, China and Russia have also condemned the activation of the snapback mechanism by the European troika. Moscow warned that reimposing sanctions against Iran could bring grave consequences, and it called it a, quote, “erroneous decision”.

The Russian Foreign Ministry says the trio is undermining diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution to the issue. Walk us through those reactions, if you may, because Iran has put forth questions whether the European trio is acting independently or simply following US policy.

Doctorow: 8:45
You’ve just taken words from my mouth. I was about to say precisely that. You are approaching this from a standpoint of fairness, rationality, and diplomacy. I’m afraid to say that all of those parameters do not apply in what is taking place, because Europe is only interested in currying favor with the United States at this moment, because the Europeans are scared out of their wits about how to deal with Russia when they are not equal to the Russians’ military force and when they are provoking, constantly poking the Russian bear in the eye.

So unfortunately, Iran is an innocent victim of a different set of considerations, which are really the European dependency and, say, slavish dependency on the United States and their hope that following Mr. Trump’s lead on this issue, they will be rewarded, patted on the head, and get what they want from the United States with respect to Ukraine. So, you are regrettably paying a price in the irrational and unreasonable behavior of the Europeans.

10:12
However, from the wild side world, looking from a standpoint of the global south, I think Europe has lost all credibility. And it appears to be weak, indecisive, and dependent, and lacking in sovereignty. So in that context, I think Iran does not have to feel abused. And I think you will receive very good counsel and support from the countries with which your president will be meeting in China in the next few days.

PressTV: 10:52
Massoud Shadjareh, in a joint statement, the E3 envoys to the UN accused Iran of abandoning almost all of its JCPOA commitments since 2019. What about all of Europe’s shortcomings in the implementation of the JCPOA? Why does Iran have to do all the heavy lifting here? Why has Iran always been the one to shoulder the responsibility of keeping the JCPOA afloat?

Shadjareh:
I mean, you couldn’t make comedy like that. In reality, it is that, you know, everyone around the world, any fair-minded person, will know that Iran went more than an extra mile to adhere to its responsibility, its commitment, but those commitments were undermined first by United States and Trump’s administration. And then it was sort of the same thing happened with the Europeans, so weak that they couldn’t really be a player.

And they just made [xxxxx] to the United States, and they weren’t able to save anything whatsoever of the agreement and they undermined it. But you know, the point I think at this hour and this time is that we need to understand that what Iranians and Iran and indeed fair-minded people in the global South will think right now is that you can’t trust, you can’t do a political deal, You can’t do a deal with the Europeans or Americans. And the fact of the matter is that really what is at here now is that we have to make a stand. Iran has to make a stand. Iran and its allies need to come together recognizing the negotiation.

12:52
If indeed this is implemented by the UN, then really it leaves no room whatsoever for any further negotiation. And I think this is the key. We are saying, we are seeing the beginning of end of international relations and international fair play, international law. And we have seen that being battered so badly over the last two years with Gaza being treated the way it has and the genocide has been supported by these nations. Now we are seeing that’s going further.

13:33
The weakness of Europeans is actually showing itself that they cannot possibly be involved in any international negotiation and be their own voice and their own action.

PressTV:
Gilbert Doctorow, Iran has been calling out the double standard here. Tehran believes it has already demonstrated its peaceful intentions, pointing to years of cooperation with the IAEA and full transparency under the NPT. But the Israeli regime that is carrying out a genocide as we speak possesses nuclear weapons without scrutiny while Iran has constantly been punished for its civilian nuclear energy program and civilian nuclear technology.

Doctorow: 14:23
Well, this double standard has been maintained under a situation of American global domination when it was not subject to a voice of reason or to measures of decency because “might made right”.

We are witnessing now the deterioration, collapse of that system. Frankly speaking, although Mr. Trump may not be a favorite politician in Iran, he is doing what he can to dismantle and destroy the underpinnings of American global domination. So in the longer run, this man who has not been very kind to Iran and who has certainly given the signal to the Europeans to make the decision which you have been decrying today, in the long run I believe that Mr. Trump is doing what he can to move to a multi-polar world, peculiar as that may sound to your audience today.

PressTV: 15:36
Massoud Shadjarah, with regards to the issue of international law, we spoke to a commentator a few days ago here on PressTV. He said, why are we even talking about international law at all? Because the issue of international law at this point is moot. Do you see it in that light as well?

Shadjareh:
Yeah, I think we really need to revalue and re-adjust our sort of even terminology when we say “double standard” or “international law”. It’s not a double standard. I think now with the blanket removed from our eyes, we could see quite clearly that it’s always, always supposed to be the same standard. This, it wasn’t a double standard, it’s an illusion that there will be a treatment, same treatment for the state of Israel as there is for Iran or anybody else around the world.

16:38
Lebanon, Syria, the reality is that it is always supposed to be this double standard. This was the standard, not double standard. And I think now we also see after almost two years of genocide in Gaza, that international law was always supposed to be misused and abused by the colonial power to implement their policies. I would even go further and say democracy has been exposed as well. You know, right across the Europe and Western world, overwhelming majority of people want end to this genocide, but the leadership, despite the strong feeling within all these nations, is not only [not] stopping it, but actually fueling it, giving free military equipment, finances and political support, and it goes on and on.

17:39
I think we need to sort of revalue that. Was there ever going to be a UN coming at 11th hour and saving the day? I would say no. Was there ever going to be equality in [inter]national law? No. Was there ever going to be equality in treaties and treatment of different nations? No.

I mean, now it’s very clear. We need to sort of sit back and say that we are in a juncture. Either we go along with the way that the Western powers are pushing us towards a future with genocide as the norm, or we oppose it and we change all the systems and have systems that are fit for purpose rather than fit for [revolution].

PressTV 18:28
Mr. Doctorow, Iran expects respect from the E3 and not pressure, especially regarding its right to enrich uranium under the NPT. Hasn’t that route of pressure proven to be ineffective? We can look at all the unilateral sanctions and the maximum pressure campaign that was spearheaded by Washington for all these years?

Doctorow:
Yes, well, of course the sanctions have been painful for Iran. It would be a mistake to underestimate the damage that has been done. Russia is the example of a country that has successfully resisted the greatest number of imposed sanctions in history. But Russia is a different country, a different economy, different scale of population, and it has been uniquely prepared to manage these sanctions. Iran has done very well, but it has suffered to a greater extent. And what is about to be reimposed if this happens? I believe you have four to six weeks to negotiate this and find some amicable solution.

19:46
But if it is imposed, of course, that will be a hardship. The question is, what will Iran’s friends and allies propose to do to alleviate this pain and in turn to inflict pain on the Europeans for the injustice they are considering. And if you look at the changing balance between Europe and the rest of the world, you will find that it is at a disadvantage today; its ability to impose willy-nilly its demands on a country like Iran is deteriorating.

20:38
This– for that to continue, it is imperative that you reach agreements with fellow members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and with BRICS because essentially the three founding members and most important driving forces of BRICS of which you are now a member will be in attendance in Beijing for the 80th anniversary of the end of the war in the Pacific Theater. So you have an opportunity. I hope that it is used effectively. And there must be a united action, not only to assist Iran, but to impose pain on those who want to use the snapback.

PressTV: 21:29
Mr. Shadjareh, let’s wrap up this segment of the program with this final question. Of course, we’re running short of time, so I’m going to ask you to be brief.

Iran says that it’s still open to dialogue, but has always insisted the trust must go both ways. If the West wants progress, It has to stop making threats and start recognizing Iran’s legal rights. But we haven’t seen much trust building from the Western governments, have we?

Shadjareh:
No, we haven’t. I mean, I think Iran, ideologically, doesn’t want to close the door and wants to show both internally and externally that is indeed looking for a solution.

But I think it’s very difficult to see that any solution externally will be available without some sort of pressure from China and from Russia and indeed, global South. And I myself, I will add my voice to all those who are saying that this needs to happen, not just for saving Iran, but indeed to save internationally the ability of everyone else to have some sort of hope for the future because this sort of bullying will not bring us anything except war, genocide and disarray.

PressTV: 22:53
All right, thanks a lot, gentlemen. Political commentator Massoud Shadjareh joining us from London, and independent international affairs analyst Gilbert Doctorow joining us from Brussels.

Thank you for contributing to tonight’s program, and a special thanks to our viewers for staying with us on tonight’s edition of “Spotlight”.

23:09
It’s good night for now. See you next time.

Two short interviews with News X World (India)

Prime Minister Narendra Modi was one of the first world leaders to arrive in Tianjin, China today for the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit that opens tomorrow and Indian broadcasters have been very busy securing commentary from their own and foreign experts on what may be accomplished at the summit.

Indeed, at various times today I joined two competing Indian broadcasters to contribute to their coverage. The first, News X World, recorded two segments for their hourly news, one on the Summit in Tianjin and the other on latest developments in the Russia-Ukraine war.

I offer the respective links below. 

2025 SCO Summit Opens in Tianjin, Key focus on Security, Trade and Technology

My own brief appearance on this program which features World X staff journalists in a number of different locations comes at minute 13.  Of particular interest, I think is the chat between the News journalist and a very well spoken CGTN journalist from China.

Russia Strikes Zaporizhzhia and Dnipropetrovsk

This video, which was recorded immediately after the preceding one, I was given the opportunity to provide what the presenter characterizes as “a fresh perspective” on the relationship of the European “friends” to the Ukrainian nation, as well as to mention the possibility of a ‘rabbit from the hat’ surprise two days from now if Donald Trump arrives in Beijing for the parade marking the end of WWII in the Pacific, as some Russian news outlets are suggesting.  I urge viewers to pay close attention to the time given to Ukrainian Prime Minister Svyrydenko’s speech at the UN condemning Russia’s continuing attacks: this is a sublime example of Orwellian inversion of reality in double talk.

Later today or tomorrow, when I receive the link to the panel discussion I participated in this afternoon with News X, the second broadcaster, I will post that here. The presenter and my fellow panelists were high level and the Community should find their remarks to be of value. I had the pleasure of offering some very unexpected thoughts on the chaos that Donald Trump has brought to U.S.-Indian relations which has left the Indians searching for answers to their woes.

Transcript of ‘Judging Freedom,’ 27 August edition

Transcript submitted by a reader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI2k2jbku8c

Napolitano: 0:32
Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for “Judging Freedom”. Today is Wednesday, August 27th, 2025. Professor Gilbert Doctorow will be here in just a moment on Trump’s confusing signals. But first this.

0:49
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1:59
Professor Doctorow, good day to you, my friend, and thank you very much for joining us and for accommodating my schedule.

In the past week, President Trump on his own Truth Social has written that Ukraine is doomed to lose the war unless it can get offensive and attack Russia, in a Truth Social that we have been posting, you can see it right there. He also authorized the delivery of 3,000 E-ROMs, offensive missile weaponry that can travel 280 miles. That’ll take about six weeks for them to get there. And just yesterday, he said he has something very severe in mind for Russia if President Putin doesn’t sit down at the same table in the same room at the same time with President Zelensky. What kind of signals is he sending to the Kremlin?

Doctorow: 2:54
Well, they’re not good ones, but I don’t see any sense of alarm coming out of Russia. They’re rather calm about this. Mr. Trump changes his– he pivots this way and pivots that way, in accordance with domestic American politics and where he sees the greatest threats to his position.

In this sense, Mr. Trump is not a great departure from other presidents and from the American political establishment for whom the rest of the world are just props. The only thing that counts in foreign policy is domestic policy. And that dictates many things. I was asked earlier today about the American initiative in the United Nations to reinstate the sanctions against Iran.

3:51
And in Tehran, they’re very upset about this. They take this, shall we say, personally? My point is, there’s nothing personal about it. If Mr. Trump sees himself under threat for one or another issue, however unrelated it is, for example, to Iran, then he will take action on Iran.

And if it’s the most convenient and less costly thing that he can do to flex muscles and to prove that he is macho and still in control of everything.

Napolitano: 4:27
I realize that you and I agree that he is often driven by his own personality and his own ego. He doesn’t have the moral or ideological or value-laden sense of some of his predecessors. But what is to be accomplished by these threats? How can he expect the Kremlin to react positively, or do they just dismiss it as, “Oh, there he is changing his mind again, he doesn’t mean it, he’ll back off, what can he possibly do to us?”

Doctorow:
I think it’s the second situation. We don’t know what back channels there are, what messages are being sent by Washington to the Kremlin to reassure them that this is not going to be what it looks like. If it is what it looks like, then we have World War III. So then we all should be quite excited about it. What I mean is that the Russians have made definite threats, what they will do to the suppliers of long range missiles that are being used against them deep inside the Russian Federation.

5:40
And this would be in direct, this shipment of these 3,600, whatever it is, medium-range, oh, 480 miles is pretty good. If that is used as the Ukrainians would normally use it to destroy civilian infrastructure, to kill ordinary Russians and not to attack military posts, then the Russians will have to, if they want to follow through on their red lines, attack Washington.

So I don’t believe this is going to happen. He’s making sounds and he’s silencing critics of one kind or another, maybe in relation to his policy on Gaza. It’s hard to say exactly what is motivating him.

But I would go a little bit in variance with what you said about his ego. I don’t think he’s ego-driven. I think it is policy-driven. But it is political threats that he’s responding to. They are real threats. And he responds in what seems to be illogical and unrelated manners.

Napolitano:
Here’s his threat yesterday, Chris, cut number two.

Trump: 6:50
I want to see that deal end. It’s very, very serious, what I have in mind, if I have to do it. But I want to see it end.

I think that in many ways he’s there. Sometimes he’ll be there and Zelensky won’t be there. You know, it’s like, who do we have today? I got to get them both at the same time. But I want to have it end.

We have economic sanctions. I’m talking about economic, because we’re not going to get into a world war. I’ll tell you what, in my opinion, if I didn’t win this race, Ukraine could have ended up in a world war. We’re not going to end up in a world war.

And it will not be a world war, but it will be an economic war. And an economic war is going to be bad. And it’s going to be bad for Russia. And I don’t want that.

Napolitano:
–done a damn thing to dial back the violence. If anything, it’s accelerated in the past eight months.

Doctorow: 7:49
Well, this brings us to the point. I think the hidden message from Moscow is what he said to Netanyahu months and months ago. But in Netanyahu’s case, it didn’t serve his interests. His interest is to keep the fight going, but to keep in, to stay in power. Mr. Putin doesn’t have a problem staying in power. He doesn’t need a war to stay in power. So the issues are a little bit different, but Trump’s behavior towards them both is the same: get it over with fast. And frankly speaking, the Russians are getting it over with much faster than they were before Mr. Trump made his threats.

Napolitano: 8:29
Yesterday, President Zelensky said he would never voluntarily surrender the oblasts in the Donbas region or Crimea. It sounds ridiculous. But is he free to make those concessions? Or would he do so at the peril of the loss of his life?

Doctorow:
Oh, I think it’s the latter case. I think the Russians are solving that predicament for him. The way they are progressing now, along the whole front, taking every soft spot they can, even if it’s not in Donetsk, even if it’s not moving closer to the Dnieper, they are taking territory and position, making emphasis on position. They moved into and took one or two towns in the new oblast for them, the Dnepropetrovsk oblast. We know about that area because there the only use of Oreshnik was to destroy a factory, military factory, heavily fortified and underground factory in Dnipro. Dnipro is the Ukrainian word for Dnepropetrovsk. And this area is of symbolic importance, the same way that taking Kramatorsk and Slavyansk in Donetsk oblast, is symbolic, because that’s where the– that was the cradle of the Russian Renaissance, the resumption of spirit and self-confidence that came in 2014.

10:07
So this Dnepropetrovsk is more than a physical acquisition, it is a symbolic acquisition, because that is the home base of Kolomoisky, the oligarch who from the start financed the Azov battalion, who financed a lot of the dirty operations against Russia.

Napolitano;
Right.

Doctorow:
And was one of the wealthiest men controlling, owning the most important bank in the country and owning the airline and calling all the shots. Well, that’s where he came from. So this is a territory, if they move on Dniepropetrovsk, they are going at the jugular of the…

Napolitano:
What actually happens or changes on the ground when the Russians take a village Does the government of the village change? Do the police in the village change? Does everybody go back to speaking Russian? Or are these takeovers of villages, which we’ve never heard of here in the US, just symbolic or part of the pathway toward the Dnieper River?

Doctorow: 11:21
It is more than symbolic. It’s clearing the way for reconstruction and for resettlement. There aren’t too many people in those towns that are taken, to greet the incoming Russian soldiers. Very few have remained behind, because they were under threat of being shot by the Ukrainian soldiers for not evacuating with them. So there are very few people in their cellars or whatever who are there to toss flowers to the incoming Russian soldiers.

The main task that the Russians have is demining. And they send in their specialists to remove the mines, because everything is mined after the Ukrainians leave a village. Well, I say village; most of these places they’re conquering really are hamlets. Maybe they have two, three, 500 inhabitants. They’re not a village in the sense that you had in mind.

And they don’t have mayors and high officials. But this is very important. Mr. Putin yesterday had his meeting one-on-one with the governor of Kherson oblast. And this is an area that is highly contested.

The Kherson city, the capital, is on the right bank, that is say the west bank of the Dnieper. It is under Ukrainian control. It was evacuated by the Russians as untenable. They had to cross the river to supply it.

But most of that, Kherson oblast is in Russian control on the east side of the Dnieper. And they were discussing the vast reconstruction program that’s now ongoing, building 600 kilometers of new asphalt roads and all kinds of infrastructure. And taking each of these little hamlets and villages is extending the territory in which Russia will restore normal living conditions, rebuild housing, and so forth. So it’s more than symbolic that when they take these, they’re preparing to move in immediately to restore normal living in these places.

Napolitano:
And who pays for this reconstruction? The Russian Federation, or is it private investments, or is it BlackRock in the U.S.? Who’s paying for it?

Doctorow: 13:41
It is multiple layers of the Russian government. You have cities in Russia like Moscow, which have city-to-city brotherly relations with this or that town, the same thing as St. Petersburg, and they put up their own laborers, their own equipment and so forth, to do construction work and then to build new housing for the returnees.

You ask which language they speak. Almost everyone in these territories speaks Russian. The idea they’re– or they’re bilingual, Ukrainian, Russian. Let’s not confuse the language with the ethnicity. There are ethnic Ukrainians, if you can define that, who are Russian speakers. That was the predominant language in the region where they were living. So that is not really an issue.

Napolitano: 14:38
Right.

Doctorow:
Even on Ukrainian television, you have a lot of officials who are interviewed and are speaking Russian. That was the language.

Napolitano:
Isn’t it illegal, even criminal, under Ukrainian law to speak Russian?

Doctorow:
It is. But practicality says if you want them to say something, they’ll say it in a language they can speak.

Napolitano:
Right. Foreign Minister Lavrov says no Putin-Zolensky meeting without an agenda. What does that mean?

Doctorow:
Well, they have an agenda. It’s a negation of the agenda by Zelensky. As soon as he got back home following his trip to Washington, he was saying that in no way will we accept surrender of territory. And that put a big “nyet” on the whole logic of the meeting, because Trump himself had said the prime purpose of the meeting would be to discuss exchange of territories, meaning Ukraine ceding its loss.

The question, of course, is that if you go into this, the Ukrainians, if they were to cede anything, would be de facto rather than de jure, they would maintain their claims. But the United States, at least with regard to Crimea, already stated openly that it is willing to acknowledge Russian governance of Crimea, de jure. What happens to the rest of the other oblasts will be a subject for negotiation at present or perhaps at a given time in the future.

Napolitano: 16:09
India is thumbing its nose at Trump’s tariffs, which are now up to, I think, 60 percent. Are you surprised?

Doctorow:
There has been some very reasonable analysis of what actually is happening on these tariffs. The most important component of Indian exports to the United States are not commodities, they’re not products. It is IT, it is technology, it is software programming. So I think $38 billion in that. That’s not touched.

Pharmaceuticals are not touched. And we all know that India is a big producer of generic pharmaceuticals, which are in big demand because they cost a fraction of the price of the original owners of the medicines that we’re talking about. These are not touched. What is touched are this: many factory operations were started up in the last two or three years to replace production that otherwise had been going on for American companies in China.

And so this is affected. The products that were being made in India to replace their production in China are under direct threat and become unviable as exports to the United States. That is surprising, but I’m just saying that the Indian commentators do note that it is more complicated than it looks. Nonetheless, Mr. Trump has undone in a matter of a couple of months, what the United States took perhaps 10 years to achieve as a foreign policy objective: to use India as a counterbalance to China and to invite India into its partnerships relating to the Indo-Pacific area.

18:05
That’s all undone. And it’s remarkable. That is the most astonishing reversal, and I say loss of American influence, that Mr. Trump has done since taking office. Mr. Biden pushed Russia into China’s arms, and Mr. Trump is pushing India into Russia’s arms. And also into China’s arms. Mr. Modi is going to China, I think, in the next week or two.

Napolitano;
Right.

Doctorow:
This will be the first visit in seven years.

Napolitano:
Is it fair to say that for all of his bombast and threats and animosity toward BRICS, he’s actually strengthening it, Trump?

Doctorow:
Absolutely. That’s a perfect summary of his achievements from seven months in office.

Napolitano: 18:52
Wow. Last week, the Russians destroyed not- yet-assembled Taurus missiles that had been delivered by Germany to Ukraine. Did Chancellor Merz think that the Russians would allow the Ukrainians to assemble these things and start firing them?

Doctorow:
Well, the Russians did very important damage to the whole missile program in Ukraine, both the deployment of weapons that are received from outside and the construction of weapons using British and other Western technologies. One of the big issues that drove Mr. Trump– if you want to speak, want to find rational decision-making in what he’s been doing for the last 10 days– one of the most important factors was the destruction of the Flex Factory. This was nominally making coffee machines for consumers in Ukraine, 30 kilometres away from the Hungarian border. A company called Flex, I believe, which was the local branch of an American electronics manufacturer. Now, Mr. Trump had to react to that.

20:18
This was, I don’t know, this was a billion dollar or so, so it was a large investment had been made by Americans in this military production, intending to create strike missiles in Ukraine. This was utterly destroyed by a combination of drones and hypersonic missiles. Flattened, destroyed. It took Mr. Trump a day to react.

Of course, he must have been under enormous pressure. “How do they dare?” Just as Mr. Merz must be concerned, “How do the Russians dare?” Well, they dare.

In this sense, there’s acceleration, escalation I should say as well, in what the Russians are doing. Before, they didn’t touch manufacturing facilities owned by foreigners. Now they are. And it was a big signal to the Brits, to the French, to the Germans, don’t even think of setting up military facilities, production facilities in Ukraine, because they will suffer the same fate.

21:17
So in a number of ways, the various threats that Trump and others have made, the various attempts to have a real military presence in Ukraine– such as assisting the construction of latest generation strike missiles there– that has touched a nerve, and the Russians have responded, I’d say, violently.

Napolitano:
I’ll tell you what I’m concerned about, Professor Doctorow, and I wonder if you share that concern. And that is the resurgence of the neocon whispering into Donald Trump’s ear. General Kellogg, Senator Graham, Secretary Rubio. The type of threat that Trump made yesterday. Maybe it’s just an idle threat. He often talks off the top of his head. I can’t imagine he’s run this past his advisors first. But I’m worried that that neocon attitude may be resurgent in the behavior of the American president. Do you share that fear?

Doctorow: 22:28
No, I don’t. There are limits on what he’s going to do. And the limits are: if he were to do what he said about giving the Ukrainians these 5,000 missiles and letting them have a go at it, then we’ll have a war. And the last thing he wants is a war. He had just said in the segment that you quoted that he wants an economic war, not a kinetic war. And I believe that is a deep-set feeling.

As to the whisperers, again, this is part of his drama, of his theatre. Not everybody is deceived. There are a few people around who have their wits about them and understand what’s going on, even in Europe. Even in Europe. There were two days ago in a broadsheet publication as a large-format daily newspaper, the “Écho de la bourse”, there was an article interviewing a leading French European security specialist talking about how the European response to Trump and his seeming pivot towards Putin and against themselves explaining that it’s a little bit more nuanced than one would think, that Europeans aren’t complete dolts.

They understand that he could be playing with them, that he could be stringing them along, but they have a choice of two ways to react. One is to turn their back on him and to go against him, to dig in their heels. And the other is to humor him, to play to his vanity and to think that they can bring him around. And the second policy has a little bit more depth to it than it appears. It is that they don’t want to be seen as being that monkey-wrench in the works that Mr. Putin was talking about. They don’t want the failure of Trump’s peace efforts to be their doing. They believe that Mr. Putin will do it and let him take the flak, let him take the opprobrium from Trump for destroying his chances of getting the Nobel Peace Prize and ruining the peace negotiations. And that could be, there’s a logic to that. It makes them look a little bit less stupid than they otherwise seem to be.

Napolitano: 25:01
Right. Before we go, what is the significance, if any, of the arrest in Italy of this Ukrainian intelligence officer? I think I have this right.

Doctorow:
No, you do. I was very glad you brought it up because while very little is said about it in Western news, a lot is said about it in Russian news. And they’re covering it closely. Today’s had a release on the ticker tape news in Russia that you find on their Yandex, that he was the head. The man who was arrested was a Ukrainian officer who was supervising a team of seven saboteurs, of various specialties, who carried out the preparation of destruction of the Nord Stream 1 pipeline. But that doesn’t take away from Sy Hersh’s story that the whole thing, the whole concept was American and that Biden approved the timing and that this was a setup for whenever the American president decided the explosive would be detonated.

26:17
That doesn’t change. But it does tell you that, and as Russians are saying, in fact, the only aspect of this that interests them is this team was Ukrainian and that it could never have been authorized without the personal approval of Zelensky. And they’re saying, and what is Mr. Merz going to do about it?

Napolitano:
And what was this team of Ukrainians doing in Italy? Where in Italy? In Rome?

Doctorow;
No, no, It’s one man who’s captured, as far as I know. And there is an arrest warrant out for six others who were his subordinates in this team that carried out the preparation of the destruction of the pipeline. And I suppose he’s simply enjoying the money that he received for his work.

I think he’s just gotten away from the hardships of Ukraine. I don’t believe that he’s out there in Italy on assignment. Certainly that his team isn’t there, because the job was done.

Napolitano:
Professor Doctorow, thank you very much. Thanks for the broad array of topics. Thanks for the tip on the arrest in Italy. Great chatting with you, my dear friend. We have a holiday coming up here in the US, Labor Day weekend, but it should not interfere with our work next week, and I look forward to it already.

Doctorow:
And I do as well. Thank you.

Napolitano:
Thank you. All the best. And coming up later today, actually beginning shortly at 11 this morning, Professor Jeffrey Sacks; at noon, Aaron Mate; at three this afternoon, Phil Giraldi. Tomorrow, Colonel McGregor and Professor Mearsheimer and Colonel Wilkerson.

28:03
Judge Napolitano for “Judging Freedom”.