Seymour Hersh,  Anatol Lieven and the desperate DC gambit to end hostilities in Ukraine while claiming ‘victory’

Several days ago, the renowned, Pulitzer prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh published on his substack.com account an article entitled “General to General. A potential peace is being negotiated in Ukraine by military leaders.”

To be specific, Hersh said that secret talks about a possible peace are presently being conducted by Ukraine’s military commander-in-chief General Valery Zaluzhny and Russia’s highest military officer Valery Gerasimov.

The main attention grabbing paragraph in the article was the following:

“The driving force of those talks has not been Washington or Moscow, or Biden or Putin, but instead the two high-ranking generals who run the war, Valery Gerasimov of Russia and Valery Zaluzhny of Ukraine.”

The next most sensational point in the article was that part of the settlement foresees Russian acceptance of Ukraine joining NATO on condition that NATO formally commits ‘not to place NATO troops on Ukrainian soil’ or to put offensive weapons in Ukraine.

And the final key element in the settlement that would reward Russia for its acquiescence on NATO membership would be Ukraine’s recognition of Crimea as irrevocably Russian and the holding of a referendum in the Donbas and Novorossiya (Zaporozhie and Kherson) oblasts that were liberated by Russia and then joined the Russian Federation, a measure which in effect would be a fig-leaf for formal settlement of the fate of these territories as Russian once and for all.

This article has been widely commented upon in anti-establishment media outlets, which for the most part find Hersh’s revelations to be so incredible as to be unworthy of serious discussion. In a review article carried by the unofficial Chinese journal Asia Times, Stephen Bryen suggests that ‘Hersh has been sold a bill of goods, or duped…’ See “Is Hersh story on secret Ukraine peace talks true?”

In what follows, I will consider

  1.  why Seymour Hersh was the chosen vehicle of American intelligence operatives for bringing this remarkable story to the broad American and Western publics.
  2. how elements in the story have been appearing in the writings of other more consciously (com)pliant journalists in recent weeks as a face saving ‘exit ramp’ from the failed Ukrainian adventure is being prepared by the White House
  3. what from among the incredible elements exposed by Hersh may actually have some factual basis and give us a foretaste of the end-game in Ukraine as it is currently envisioned in Washington, and maybe even in Moscow

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After passing through a number of years in relative obscurity, after being blacklisted by all U.S. mainstream media outlets, Seymour Hersh emerged center-stage this past February when he published on his substack account a lengthy article which set out in great detail how the bombing of the Nordstream I pipeline was planned and carried out under instructions from the White House and Biden’s close advisers. Though Washington formally denied any involvement in what was arguably the biggest act of state terrorism in history, and though Germany and other interested states in Europe have since done their utmost to divert attention to a cock-and-bull story of Ukrainian responsibility for the bombing of Nord Stream I, Hersh’s account was an expose worthy of the journalistic exploits that once won him the Pulitzer and it remains highly persuasive.

Of course, at age 86 Hersh did not go out and track down the story he published in February. It was brought to him on a silver platter from unidentified sources, i.e. actors within the Administration whose motives remain unclear.

The unidentified sources who have now brought the story of secret negotiations between Russian and Ukrainian generals to end the war could count on Hersh’s profound ignorance of Russia and his desire to again win plaudits for a ‘scoop.’  Here the motives of the ‘leakers’ are not hard to find: Hersh was indeed being duped in an operation to condition Western publics for an end to the Ukraine war under conditions that present defeat as victory.

Let me be perfectly clear: the notion that Russia’s General Gerasimov could on his own volition enter into talks with his Ukrainian opposite number to end the hostilities is a notion that can be entertained only by someone who fails to comprehend what the ‘vertical of power’ in Russia is all about.

At the same time, presumably to illustrate the high standing of Gerasimov, Hersh has placed at the very start of his article a photo of Putin and Gerasimov seated face to face under which we read the following caption:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin meeting with General Valery Gerasimov at the headquarters of the Russian armed forces in Rostov-on-Don in October”

This photo is more interesting than Hersh and most readers of his article could imagine.  Indeed, this very meeting in October was given video coverage on prime time Russian television on the day it occurred. We saw how Putin arrived by car well after dark following a flight to the Rostov headquarters by helicopter, how he shook hands with Gerasimov and with Defense Minister Shoigu who was also present; then we were shown how Putin departed. There was not a word about the content of these top level talks.  Only a couple of days later in a dedicated television news segment did we learn that Russia had just carried out a full scale test of the battle readiness of all three arms of its strategic nuclear triad, which may be described as a direct message to Washington to proceed with great care in the Ukraine war and to think twice before authorizing any further escalation of its deliveries to Kiev of advanced offensive weapons.

A similar news report on Russian state television less than two weeks ago showed Putin, Gerasimov and Shoigu holding talks in secret at the Rostov-on-Don military headquarters. However, in the time since then no extraordinary event in the war or in overall military activities that could be matched with the talks in Rostov.   I believe that Putin’s preparing Gerasimov for a meeting with Zaluzhny would fit that description.

At the same time, it is fantasy to think that Ukraine’s general Zaluzhny would risk accusations of treason if he were on his own, acting out of ambition or out of motives to save what is left of the Ukrainian armed forces, to defy President Zelensky and the standing decree prohibiting talks with the Russians so long as Putin remains in power.  To suggest that he was doing so because he received backing from Washington as the Americans seek to bypass the obstinate or delusional Zelensky and find an escape path from the Ukrainian disaster is also to misunderstand how things work even in Ukraine, however dysfunctional the ruling elites may appear to be. Let us instead, turn things around:  Zaluzhny would assume the role of savior of the nation only at the urging and with ironclad guarantees of protection coming from the Biden administration.

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The elements of a possible peace set out in the Hersh article have been circulating for weeks now in the publications and television appearances of mainstream U.S. journalists and academics. There are numerous variations in the combinations of compromises that both Ukrainian and Russian sides are called upon to make according to which academic or pundit is penning any given article.

Let us pause for a moment to look at what one widely read academic / journalist is saying. I have in mind Anatol Lieven and his latest article published on responsiblestatecraft.org:  “Biden’s role in Ukraine peace is clear now.” 

In popular estimation, Lieven is a middle of the road expert with great depth of experience reporting on Russia. In my estimation, he is a chameleon who speaks out of both sides of his mouth to win over the maximum number of fans. Lieven wallows in the celebrity he enjoys while saying what the bosses in the Administration want him to say.

Going back more than a year, Lieven was especially sympathetic to the Ukrainian side in the war, never more so than when he returned from a visit to Ukraine during which he landed in a hospital and soaked up the anti-Russian vitriol of his fellow patients. He was a longtime defender of Ukrainian resilience and moral strength in standing up to the Russian bully. He was a seeming believer in ultimate Ukrainian victory. Now he has shifted to a position acknowledging the failure of the Ukrainian counter-offensive and the hopelessness of the Ukrainian military prospects.

His message today has changed 180 degrees and yet he seeks to find a way to present defeat as victory, in keeping with the boys in the White House staff.  I quote at length:

A ceasefire and negotiations for a peace settlement are therefore becoming more and more necessary for Ukraine. Indeed, if the fighting stopped along the existing battle lines, more than 80 percent of Ukraine would be fully independent of (and bitterly hostile to) Russia and free to do its best to move towards membership of the European Union.

Given the Kremlin’s original aims when it launched the invasion last year, and of the history of Russia’s domination of Ukraine over the past 300 years, this would be not a Ukrainian defeat, but, on the contrary, a tremendous Ukrainian victory. If, on the other hand, the war continues indefinitely, there is a real possibility that Ukrainian resistance may collapse, whether through the exhaustion of its manpower or because Russia’s additional forces allow it to reopen the fronts in northern Ukraine that it pulled back from last year and that Ukraine lacks the troops to defend.

Following from this, Lieven argues for a settlement now, well in advance of the U.S. elections, when a Ukrainian collapse would be very damaging for any Democratic candidate.

He says that to bring the Russians around, Washington will have to make major concessions to the fundamental Russian demands from before the start of the war: 

[Russia] will need to be assured that Washington is prepared to discuss seriously a final settlement involving neutrality for Ukraine (of course, including international security guarantees), mutual force limitations in Europe, the lifting of sanctions, and some form of inclusive European security architecture to reduce the danger of more wars in the future.

Lieven hopes that the Global South and China, in particular, can be induced “to issue a strong collective call for a ceasefire and peace talks.” 

The elements in the concessions to Russia that Lieven proposes are somewhat vague. They are considerably more generous than what Seymour Hersh is proposing.  No matter.  Both gentlemen and dozens of their peers are being encouraged by the policy formulators in the Administration to prepare the Russians to enter into talks and to prepare the American and European publics for an end to the war that is a defeat dressed up as a victory.

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As I intimated above, it is entirely possible that there have been direct talks about ending the war between Gerasimov and Zaluzhny in the past couple of weeks, though neither would be an independent actor as Hersh mistakenly believes.

I will go one step further and say that it is entirely possible that the Russian side suggested that it could accept Ukraine’s entry into NATO if there was a public commitment never to post NATO forces on Ukrainian territory and not to deliver offensive weapons to Ukraine.  Such things can be monitored and if there are violations they can lead directly to revocation of the agreement before any harm is done to Russian security interests.

The possible advantage to the Russian side would be to offer the Americans a face-saving exit ramp, thereby ending any possibility of dangerous escalation of American – NATO involvement on the ground should the Ukrainian forces collapse. 

Vladimir Putin has been very cautious in conducting this war precisely because the Russians have a decidedly low opinion of the professionalism, and at times even of the sanity of their American counterparts. Putin is strong enough in his entourage of elites and in the broad Russian public to make a persuasive case for any settlement that ensures Russian security interests are served and that the sacrifices in men and fortune that this war has cost will be justified by the outcome.

Even in the less attractive peace terms set out by Hersh, the positive results for Russia would be the definitive liberation of most of the Russian speaking territories of Ukraine from rule by Kiev and their incorporation into the Russian Federation, the de facto demilitarization of Ukraine given its losses on the order of one million men dead or incapacitated, and the confidence that Ukraine can no longer be used as an advance attack platform of NATO against his country.

©Gilbert Doctorow, 2023

Translation below into German (Andreas Mylaeus)

Seymour Hersh, Anatol Lieven und der verzweifelte Schachzug aus DC, die Feindseligkeiten in der Ukraine zu beenden und das zum “Sieg” zu erklären

Vor einigen Tagen hat der renommierte, mit dem Pulitzer-Preis ausgezeichnete Enthüllungsjournalist Seymour Hersh auf seinem substack.com-Konto einen Artikel veröffentlicht mit dem Titel “General to General. A potential peace is being negotiated in Ukraine by military leaders” (“Von General zu General. Ein möglicher Frieden wird in der Ukraine von militärischen Führern ausgehandelt”).

Genauer gesagt meinte Hersh, dass geheime Gespräche über einen möglichen Frieden derzeit vom militärischen Oberbefehlshaber der Ukraine, General Valery Zaluzhny, und dem höchsten russischen Militäroffizier Valery Gerasimov geführt werden.

Der wichtigste Absatz des Artikels, der die Aufmerksamkeit auf sich zog, war der folgende:

“Die treibende Kraft dieser Gespräche war weder Washington noch Moskau, weder Biden noch Putin, sondern waren die beiden hochrangigen Generäle, die den Krieg führen, Valery Gerasimov aus Russland und Valery Zaluzhny aus der Ukraine.”

Der nächste sensationelle Punkt in dem Artikel war, dass ein Teil der Vereinbarung vorsiehen soll, dass Russland den NATO-Beitritt der Ukraine unter der Bedingung akzeptiert, dass sich die NATO formell verpflichtet, “keine NATO-Truppen auf ukrainischem Boden zu stationieren” oder Angriffswaffen in der Ukraine einzusetzen.

Und das letzte Schlüsselelement der Einigung, das Russland für seine Duldung der NATO-Mitgliedschaft belohnen würde, wäre die Anerkennung der Krim durch die Ukraine als unwiderruflich russisch und die Abhaltung eines Referendums in den von Russland befreiten und dann der Russischen Föderation beigetretenen Oblasten Donbas und Noworossija (Saporoshje und Cherson), eine Maßnahme, die faktisch ein Feigenblatt für die formelle Regelung des Schicksals dieser Gebiete als ein für alle Mal russisch wäre.

Dieser Artikel wurde in den Anti-Establishment-Medien ausführlich kommentiert, die Hershs Enthüllungen größtenteils für so unglaubhaft halten, dass sie einer ernsthaften Diskussion nicht würdig seien. In einem Artikel, der von der inoffiziellen chinesischen Zeitschrift Asia Times veröffentlicht wurde, behauptet Stephen Bryen, dass “Hersh ein Schwindel verkauft oder er übertölpelt wurde…” Siehe “Is Hersh story on secret Ukraine peace talks true?”

Nachstehend werde ich auf Folgendes eingehen

  1. warum Seymour Hersh von den amerikanischen Geheimdienstmitarbeitern ausgewählt wurde, um diese bemerkenswerte Geschichte einer breiten amerikanischen und westlichen Öffentlichkeit zu vermitteln;
  2. wie Elemente der Geschichte in den letzten Wochen in den Schriften anderer, bewusst gefügigerer Journalisten auftauchten, während das Weiße Haus einen gesichtswahrenden “Ausstieg” aus dem gescheiterten ukrainischen Abenteuer vorbereitet;
  3. was von den unglaubhaften Elementen, die Hersh aufgedeckt hat, tatsächlich eine gewisse faktische Grundlage haben könnte und uns einen Vorgeschmack auf das Endspiel in der Ukraine gibt, wie es derzeit in Washington und vielleicht sogar in Moskau geplant ist.

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Nachdem Seymour Hersh einige Jahre in relativer Obskurität verbracht hatte, nachdem er von allen US-Mainstream-Medien auf die schwarze Liste gesetzt worden war, stand er im vergangenen Februar im Mittelpunkt des Interesses, als er auf seinem Substack-Account einen langen Artikel veröffentlichte, in dem er sehr detailliert darlegte, wie der Bombenanschlag auf die Nordstream-I-Pipeline auf Anweisung des Weißen Hauses und der engen Berater Bidens geplant und ausgeführt wurde. Obwohl Washington offiziell jede Beteiligung an diesem wohl größten Akt des Staatsterrorismus in der Geschichte bestritt und obwohl Deutschland und andere interessierte Staaten in Europa seitdem alles getan haben, um die Aufmerksamkeit auf eine erlogene Geschichte über eine ukrainische Verantwortung für die Bombardierung von Nord Stream I zu lenken, war Hershs Bericht eine Enthüllung, die seiner journalistischen Leistungen würdig war, die ihm einst den Pulitzer-Preis einbrachte, und sie ist nach wie vor höchst überzeugend.

Natürlich ist Hersh im Alter von 86 Jahren nicht losgezogen, um die Geschichte aufzuspüren, die er im Februar veröffentlicht hat. Sie wurde ihm von unbekannten Quellen auf dem Silbertablett serviert, d.h. von Akteuren innerhalb der Regierung, deren Motive unklar bleiben.

Die unbekannten Quellen, die jetzt die Geschichte von den Geheimverhandlungen zwischen russischen und ukrainischen Generälen zur Beendigung des Krieges aufgebracht haben, konnten sich auf Hershs profunde Unkenntnis Russlands und seinen Wunsch verlassen, wieder einmal für einen “Scoop” gelobt zu werden. Dabei sind die Motive der “Leaker” nicht schwer zu erkennen: Hersh wurde in der Tat im Zuge einer Operation düpiert, um die westliche Öffentlichkeit auf ein Ende des Ukraine-Krieges unter Bedingungen vorzubereiten, die eine Niederlage als Sieg darstellen.

Um es ganz klar zu sagen: Die Vorstellung, dass der russische General Gerasimow aus eigenem Antrieb Gespräche mit seinem ukrainischen Amtskollegen aufnehmen könnte, um die Feindseligkeiten zu beenden, ist eine Vorstellung, die nur jemand haben kann, der nicht versteht, worum es in der “Vertikale der Macht” in Russland geht.

Gleichzeitig hat Hersh, vermutlich um das hohe Ansehen Gerassimows zu illustrieren, an den Anfang seines Artikels ein Foto gestellt, auf dem Putin und Gerassimow einander gegenübersitzen und unter dem die folgende Bildunterschrift zu lesen ist:

“Der russische Präsident Wladimir Putin bei einem Treffen mit General Waleri Gerassimow im Hauptquartier der russischen Streitkräfte in Rostow am Don im Oktober.”

Dieses Foto ist interessanter, als sich Hersh und die meisten Leser seines Artikels vorstellen können. Tatsächlich wurde genau dieses Treffen im Oktober am selben Tag zur besten Sendezeit im russischen Fernsehen auf Video übertragen. Wir sahen, wie Putin nach einem Hubschrauberflug zum Hauptquartier in Rostow weit nach Einbruch der Dunkelheit mit dem Auto ankam, wie er Gerassimow und dem ebenfalls anwesenden Verteidigungsminister Schoigu die Hand schüttelte; dann wurde gezeigt, wie Putin abreiste. Über den Inhalt dieser Gespräche auf höchster Ebene wurde kein einziges Wort verloren. Erst ein paar Tage später erfuhren wir in einer Nachrichtensendung, dass Russland soeben die Gefechtsbereitschaft aller drei Waffen seiner strategischen Nukleartriade in vollem Umfang getestet hat, was als direkte Botschaft an Washington zu verstehen ist, im Ukraine-Krieg mit großer Vorsicht vorzugehen und es sich zweimal zu überlegen, bevor es eine weitere Eskalation seiner Lieferungen fortschrittlicher Angriffswaffen an Kiew genehmigt.

Ein ähnlicher Bericht des russischen Staatsfernsehens vor weniger als zwei Wochen zeigte Putin, Gerassimow und Schoigu bei geheimen Gesprächen im militärischen Hauptquartier in Rostow am Don. In der Zwischenzeit gab es jedoch kein außergewöhnliches Ereignis im Krieg oder in den allgemeinen militärischen Aktivitäten, das mit den Gesprächen in Rostow in Einklang gebracht werden könnte. Ich glaube, dass Putins Vorbereitung von Gerasimow auf ein Treffen mit Zaluzhny auf diese Beschreibung passen würde.

Gleichzeitig ist es ein Hirngespinst zu glauben, dass der ukrainische General Zaluzhny den Vorwurf des Hochverrats riskieren würde, wenn er sich allein, aus Ehrgeiz oder aus Motiven, das zu retten, was von den ukrainischen Streitkräften übrig geblieben ist, über Präsident Zelensky und den ständigen Erlass, der Gespräche mit den Russen verbietet, solange Putin an der Macht ist, hinwegsetzen würde. Die Vermutung, dass er dies tat, weil er Rückendeckung aus Washington erhielt, weil die Amerikaner versuchen, den starrsinnigen oder wahnhaften Zelensky zu umgehen und einen Ausweg aus dem ukrainischen Desaster zu finden, ist ebenfalls ein Missverständnis, wie die Dinge selbst in der Ukraine funktionieren, wie dysfunktional die herrschenden Eliten auch zu sein scheinen mögen. Lassen Sie uns stattdessen die Dinge umdrehen: Zaluzhny würde die Rolle des Retters der Nation nur auf Drängen und mit eisernen Schutzgarantien der Regierung Biden übernehmen.

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Die in dem Hersh-Artikel dargelegten Elemente eines möglichen Friedens kursieren seit Wochen in den Veröffentlichungen und Fernsehauftritten von US-Journalisten und Akademikern der Hauptströmung. Die Kombinationen von Kompromissen, zu denen sowohl die ukrainische als auch die russische Seite aufgerufen werden, variieren stark, je nachdem, welcher Wissenschaftler oder Experte einen bestimmten Artikel verfasst.

Lassen Sie uns einen Moment innehalten, um zu sehen, was ein viel gelesener Wissenschaftler/Journalist sagt. Ich denke dabei an Anatol Lieven und seinen jüngsten Artikel, der auf responsiblestatecraft.org veröffentlicht wurde: “Biden’s role in Ukraine peace is clear now. ” (“Bidens Rolle für den Frieden in der Ukraine ist jetzt klar.”)

Nach allgemeiner Einschätzung ist Lieven ein durchschnittlicher Experte mit großer Erfahrung in der Berichterstattung über Russland. Meiner Meinung nach ist er ein Chamäleon, das aus beiden Seiten seines Mundes spricht, um möglichst viele Fans zu gewinnen. Lieven schwelgt in der Berühmtheit, die er genießt, während er das sagt, was die Chefs in der Verwaltung von ihm hören wollen.

Seit mehr als einem Jahr sympathisiert Lieven besonders mit der ukrainischen Seite des Krieges, vor allem, nachdem er von einem Besuch in der Ukraine zurückkehrte, bei dem er in einem Krankenhaus landete und die antirussischen Anfeindungen seiner Mitpatienten aufsaugte. Er war ein langjähriger Verteidiger der ukrainischen Widerstandskraft und der moralischen Stärke, mit der sie sich dem russischen Tyrannen entgegenstellten. Er war ein scheinbarer Gläubiger des ukrainischen Endsiegs. Jetzt ist er zu einer Position übergegangen, in der er das Scheitern der ukrainischen Gegenoffensive und die Hoffnungslosigkeit der ukrainischen militärischen Aussichten anerkennt.

Seine Botschaft hat sich heute um 180 Grad gedreht, und dennoch versucht er, einen Weg zu finden, die Niederlage als Sieg darzustellen, ganz im Sinne der Jungs im Stab des Weißen Hauses. Ich zitiere auszugsweise:

Ein Waffenstillstand und Verhandlungen über eine Friedensregelung werden daher für die Ukraine immer dringender. Würden die Kämpfe entlang der bestehenden Kampflinien eingestellt, wären mehr als 80 Prozent der Ukraine völlig unabhängig von (und erbittert verfeindet mit) Russland und frei, ihr Bestes zu tun, um sich auf die Mitgliedschaft in der Europäischen Union zuzubewegen.

In Anbetracht der ursprünglichen Ziele des Kremls bei der Invasion im letzten Jahr und der Geschichte der russischen Herrschaft über die Ukraine in den letzten 300 Jahren wäre dies keine ukrainische Niederlage, sondern ganz im Gegenteil ein gewaltiger ukrainischer Sieg. Wenn der Krieg hingegen auf unbestimmte Zeit fortgesetzt wird, besteht die reale Möglichkeit, dass der ukrainische Widerstand zusammenbricht, sei es durch die Erschöpfung seiner Arbeitskräfte oder dadurch, dass Russland mit seinen zusätzlichen Kräften die Fronten in der Nordukraine wieder eröffnen kann, von denen es sich im letzten Jahr zurückgezogen hat und für deren Verteidigung der Ukraine die Truppen fehlen.

Im Anschluss daran plädiert Lieven für eine Einigung zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt, lange vor den Wahlen in den USA, wo ein Zusammenbruch der Ukraine für jeden Kandidaten der Demokratischen Partei sehr schädlich wäre.

Um die Russen zum Einlenken zu bewegen, müsse Washington erhebliche Zugeständnisse an die grundlegenden russischen Forderungen aus der Zeit vor dem Beginn des Krieges machen:

[Russland] muss die Gewissheit haben, dass Washington bereit ist, ernsthaft über eine endgültige Regelung zu diskutieren, die die Neutralität der Ukraine (natürlich einschließlich internationaler Sicherheitsgarantien), die Begrenzung der gegenseitigen Streitkräfte in Europa, die Aufhebung der Sanktionen und eine Art umfassender europäischer Sicherheitsarchitektur beinhaltet, um die Gefahr weiterer Kriege in der Zukunft zu verringern.

Lieven hofft, dass der Globale Süden und insbesondere China dazu gebracht werden können, “einen starken kollektiven Aufruf zu einem Waffenstillstand und zu Friedensgesprächen zu machen”.

Die Elemente der Zugeständnisse an Russland, die Lieven vorschlägt, sind etwas vage. Sie sind wesentlich großzügiger als das, was Seymour Hersh vorschlägt. Aber das macht nichts. Beide Herren und Dutzende ihrer Kollegen werden von den Politikgestaltern in der Regierung ermutigt, die Russen auf Gespräche vorzubereiten und die amerikanische und europäische Öffentlichkeit auf ein Kriegsende vorzubereiten, das eine als Sieg verkleidete Niederlage ist.

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Wie ich bereits angedeutet habe, ist es durchaus möglich, dass es in den letzten Wochen direkte Gespräche zwischen Gerasimow und Zaluzhny über die Beendigung des Krieges gegeben hat, obwohl keiner von beiden ein unabhängiger Akteur wäre, wie Hersh fälschlicherweise glaubt.

Ich möchte noch einen Schritt weiter gehen und sagen, dass es durchaus möglich ist, dass die russische Seite angedeutet hat, dass sie den Beitritt der Ukraine zur NATO akzeptieren könnte, wenn es eine öffentliche Verpflichtung gäbe, niemals NATO-Truppen auf ukrainischem Gebiet zu stationieren und keine Angriffswaffen an die Ukraine zu liefern. Solche Dinge können überwacht werden, und wenn es zu Verstößen kommt, können diese direkt zur Aufhebung des Abkommens führen, bevor den russischen Sicherheitsinteressen Schaden zugefügt wird.

Der mögliche Vorteil für die russische Seite bestünde darin, den Amerikanern eine gesichtswahrende Ausstiegsmöglichkeit zu bieten und damit jede Möglichkeit einer gefährlichen Eskalation des Engagements von Amerika und NATO vor Ort zu beenden, sollten die ukrainischen Streitkräfte zusammenbrechen.

Wladimir Putin war bei der Führung dieses Krieges sehr vorsichtig, gerade weil die Russen eine ausgesprochen niedrige Meinung von der Professionalität und zuweilen sogar von der Vernunft ihrer amerikanischen Kollegen haben. Putin ist in seinem Umfeld der Eliten und in der breiten russischen Öffentlichkeit stark genug, um überzeugend für jede Lösung einzutreten, die sicherstellt, dass die russischen Sicherheitsinteressen gewahrt bleiben und dass die Opfer an Menschen und Vermögen, die dieser Krieg gekostet hat, durch das Ergebnis gerechtfertigt werden.

Selbst bei den weniger attraktiven Friedensbedingungen, die Hersh darlegt, wären die positiven Ergebnisse für Russland die endgültige Befreiung der meisten russischsprachigen Gebiete der Ukraine von der Herrschaft Kiews und ihre Eingliederung in die Russische Föderation, die faktische Entmilitarisierung der Ukraine angesichts ihrer Verluste in der Größenordnung von einer Million toter oder kampfunfähiger Männer und die Gewissheit, dass die Ukraine nicht mehr als vorgeschobene Angriffsplattform der NATO gegen sein Land genutzt werden kann.

56 thoughts on “Seymour Hersh,  Anatol Lieven and the desperate DC gambit to end hostilities in Ukraine while claiming ‘victory’

  1. Sadly, this was not the first abysmal ‘report’ by that award winning journalist Seymour Hersh. Thank you for your analysis. I really hope that your suggestion RE NATO is not correct.

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    1. Hersh has been a CIA asset since his My Lai “limited hangout” story that netted a dumb Lt Calley but let the big fish escape (Nick Turse, a real journalist, caught them). The NS2 story reeks of LH, too, blaming demented Biden’s crew for a CIA op. This latest nonsense is below even his standard of LH. Disregard with Prejudice.

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  2. 1. It should be evidently clear to everyone by now that the only security guarantee Ukraine needs is that one coming from the Russian Federation.

    2. No part of Ukraine should be allowed to be incorporated into NATO. It is obviously clear by now that the American elites would have no problem throwing all of Europe’s men, and ultimately women in a war to undermina, weaken, destabilize, destroy Russian Federation. And a NATO Ukraine that strats breaching its agreement (not the first time), if invaded again by Russia, would be sold as an obligation by US and the other NATO members to support and defend their hapless ally. US would have no problem trashing any agreement, especially if its elites would be handed a casus belli that could be sold with some success to the population at large.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Precisely. Following the experience of the perfidious way in which the West acted in the Minsk agreements no serious leadership anywhere would entertain such terms.

      Nor would they get to the stage suggested of actually entering into such talks with those proven to be non-agreement capable.

      This whole story is pure fantasy.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Putin has said that Odessa and the Black Sea Coast will be part of Russia. Perhaps Hersh et al were not listening. It is infinitely more likely that is what the trio were discussing. Did Russian Generals discuss war-ending truces in WWII? It is not part of their portfolio.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. My understanding is that generals “discussing war-ending truces” and acting as heads of states is called “a coup.”

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  4. Thank you for your thoughts on the article. I get Hersh’s articles sent to my e-mail. This is the first time I have ever read one of his articles and thought, “Well that did not have the proverbial ‘ring of truth.'” You confirmed my suspicions.

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  5. Russia must not believe the Anglo-Americans. They already lied in the Indian wars. Let us also remember Wilson’s 14-point plan. The Germans trusted it during the Versailles “peace negotiations”. Germany was lied to. The devastating consequences of this are well known. The goal of the Anglo-Americans was always the total destruction and subjugation of the enemy. There will only be peace after the dissolution of the EU and NATO. However, there is still a long way to go to achieve this goal.

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  6. “The next most sensational point in the article was that part of the settlement foresees Russian acceptance of Ukraine joining NATO on condition that NATO formally commits ‘not to place NATO troops on Ukrainian soil’ or to put offensive weapons in Ukraine.”

    “Sensational” because it is so unbelievable. Inconceivable.

    NATO troops are already in both Ukraine and Russia. NATO, which is really the United States, only knows one direction forward, not backwards.

    U.S. foreign policy has been well out in front of mission creep for decades now, or to state the matter plainly, “border creep.” Nothing has changed. Nothing will change until what the U.S. government has been dishing out comes home and Washington, DC gets bombed on the same regular basis that Moscow has.

    Even then, the U.S. government is so insane that it will see victory in defeat, right up until things go nuclear. All the signs point towards another total war.

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  7. Hersh says that Gerasimov convinced Putin that the war is in a kind of stalemate for the moment. That part of the story sounds true to me. The conquest of Avdiivka is going just as slowly as the conquest of Bakhmut. At this speed it will take a century to conquer the whole of Ukraine. Not to mention the number of casualties. The usual suspects claim that Avdiivka is strategically situated and its fall would be a breakthrough. But we heard the same things about Bakhmut.

    The position of Zaluzhny is more obscure. Is he talking behind the back of Zelenksy or in agreement? My guess is that the clue may be in how the negotiations are done. Obviously they can’t talk face to face. Internet is a possibility. But in such a situation it is easy to say something that goes a bit too far. It is unlikely that the generals would take such a risk. It also would raise the question how the US heard about it. So the most likely option is that US officers play a key role as intermediaries. Most likely they bring it to both parties as a kind of brainstorming. Obviously the US has its own interest in this and the proposal as formulated by Hersh sounds like what they consider at the State Department the best they can get at the moment.

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    1. And yet… Putin’s popularity continually increases, while skepticism about the war in the West also continually increases. Wars are ultimately won by marshalling and directing resources effectively. Russia seems to be winning in this more important sense.

      The drip drip drip of Ukrainian defeat and Russian victory is perhaps more effective than the sugar high of a vast territorial conquest that will have to be maintained.

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    2. » At this speed it will take a century to conquer the whole of Ukraine. «
      Why assume a constant speed?
      When the UA army crumbles, runs out of ordinance and AD, no more women to draft, why will things continue at the same speed?

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      1. There is a good chance that at the moment the Ukrainian defense looks about to crumble Kiev and Washington will panic. Zelensky will send in more conscripts and the US more weapons and munition. There are millions of people that Zelensky still could conscript.

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      2. Conscript to do what? They have been scraping the bottom of the barrel. New ‘recruits’ who have little or no trainng before being sent to the front are just cannon fodder

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  8. I agree with the anti-establishment views on Hersh’s story being bogus.
    Putin and Russia have had long experience with the lack of fidelity of Western and Ukrainian promises. How could either trust assurances of “no NATO troops on Ukraine soil”, much less the touted entry of Ukraine into NATO? The only circumstance I could see for negotiations is Ukraine accepting referendums in the oblasts along the line of contact now: Dnipropetrovsk, Sumy, Kharkiv, Nicolaev, Odessa, etc – to decide if they remain Ukrainian or become fully demilitarized zones or join Russia.
    Similarly, the fact of Putin meeting with Gerasimov can have many purposes besides empowering Gerasimov to negotiate. Among other things – Russian forces all along the present line of contact are on the offensive.

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  9. Anatol Lievan recently conducted a discussion with RIchard Sakwa (available on the ACURA website from November 28th) in which he suggested that incidents like the HMS Defender’s encroachment on Crimean territorial waters in 2021 was part of the “performative” aspects of British loud and belligerent foreign policy and that it would have been abundantly clear to the Russians that Britain was in no military condition to provide substantial aid and assistance to Ukraine in an all out war effort against Russia. I find this line of thinking derisible. Britain has played the gadfly in this conflict from the beginning, has precipitated an enormous tragedy for Ukraine with its aggressive interference in the Russian-Ukrainian peace negotiations in the sprng of 2022, and it will be interesting to see how it will cope with any “performative” aspects of Russian military posture directed against its interests.

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  10. Your point of view/argument is very interesting and persuasive, and sufficiently counter intuitive to be beguiling

    I have the same opinion as to Ukraine membership of the EU ; this would, as would NATO membership, impose a certain discipline on the Ukraine rump, plus bleed the EU dry – hence appealing to the ynaks as well

    Given the history of NATO lying about everything it would be tough to take them seriously enough to talk about anything, let alone do a deal – but the EU are yapping at the leash to waste their money, why not let them?

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  11. The historical record, as summed by Otto von Bismark, is that Russians are reliable in keeping their agreements.

    The Budapest Memorandum, done in 1994 had as a backround a Ukraine that in its constitution and according to the Belovezha Accords from 1991 embraced neutrality and foreswore any intention of confronting Russia (or Belarus).

    However, after 2014, Ukraine reneged all this de facto and then in 2019 de jure, when they changed their constitution and included the intention to become a NATO member.

    Never mind the Minsk accords from 2015.

    So you need to revisit your facts a bit… more.

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  12. Seymour is being played for a fool. Nobody trusts his latest blatherings. He had his big moment concerning the destruction of Nordstream by the US, and so it’s been easy to get his “sources’ to feed him nonsense ever since.

    Now, so far as I’m aware, Zelensky passed a law earlier in the SMO that said Ukraine could not negotiate with Putin as president of Russia. Everyone seems to have forgotten this, which sounds like Boris the Bighead advice.

    I follow a low level Russian online news aggregator these days. No real opinion, just reporting. Read it everyday. Russia isn’t losing anywhere against Ukraine militarily. Sends drones and missiles every single day into Ukraine, and has for months. The place is shot up anywhere the AFU military have even a garden shed fiull of rifle ammo. A stalemate it does not seem to be at all, unless one is paid to say it is, such as numb NATO Command, various doltish US unelected officials like Austin, and the Western press. It’s their way of putting lipstick on a pig situation for public consumption:

    “Brave Ukies fight to last man/woman, and hold back to a standstill dastardly Russian thugs being lost by their tens of thousands of troops every day, so it’s time for negotiations! Ukraine must be saved! Russia has no choice but to give up all its gains because it’s broke and social tensions are high”.

    Absurd nonsense, but it’s the hundred billion dollar report to the Western masses footing the bill through taxes. All while more and more homeless move into tents like Syrian refugees of seven years ago in Northern France. Western citizens can bunk up with friends and family while we oligarchs ruin Russia. Yes, some few will need tents, but it’s all in the great cause of making the world safe for democracy. That’s the line.

    Personally, I have also become worn out with the pontifications of the various “sort of pro-Russia” bloggers and pundits in the West. Including, unfortunately, this one. None of them have really been correct at guessing what Russia has been up to, or indeed is up to — a pretty sorry record all told. My somewhat mean assessment of this blog is that asking Petersburg taxi-drivers their opinions and watching “prestigious” Russian TV shows, which only on your authority are close to the Kremlin’s beating heart and insider knowledge, is a bit of a waste of my time. What startling revelations have you got correct that others have not? Since nobody has been all that wonderful at guessing so far, my question is rhetorical.

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    1. Thanks for taking the time to get a lot off your chest. My pleasure to respond: the fact that no Russia watchers have been able to foresee accurately what comes next in this war is a perfect accolade to the Kremlin. They play their cards very close to the chest and no one has managed to put a mike under Putin’s pillow. It also attests to the constant changes in the conditions of the war largely due to American and NATO escalations. The war changes and the seeming light at the end of the tunnel each time turns out to be an illusion. For that, none of us Watchers is to blame and we revise our appraisals time and again when there the dust settles and there is some clarity. Your remarks about Russia winning on all points is true but insufficient to appreciate what is happening. The seemingly bankrupted and depleted Ukrainians keep on throwing more men and equipment against the Russians each day in what iw very bitter fighting, not the walk in the rose garden that you seem to imagine. I do not consider myself a ‘pro-Russia blogger’ even if my personal sympathies are with Moscow. My job is to bring the Russian side of the conversation to the ears of Western audiences who only hear one very propagandistic side from the BBC, from CNN, etc. And that Russian side as presented on the talk shows concentrates on Western material from major mainstream television and print media, as for example the big essay on the Ukraine war in yesterday’s Washington Post. And who is on these talk shows about which you apparently know nothing at all? They are not just journalists and talking heads. They are a Duma members from the three main parties, who all have different programs and views and who are first rate minds. They are important because the elites set the limits on what Mr Putin can do, not because they direct what he does. They present on air what I know Russians are talking about around their dinner tables. If you are dismissive about public opinion then you are easily falling into the trap of believing that one man decides everything for 145 million Russians. I do not offer startling revelations as you put it. I just fill out the information flow to my subscribers so they can better judge for themselves what is going on.

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      1. Wow, that is the most gentle, thorough, and empathetic response that I can imagine. Kudos to you and a beautiful New Year.

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  13. “…part of the settlement foresees Russian acceptance of Ukraine joining NATO on condition that NATO formally commits ‘not to place NATO troops on Ukrainian soil’ or to put offensive weapons in Ukraine”.

    Ridiculous nonsense. The Russians now take it as axiomatic that Washington, London, and NATO are “not agreement-capable”. There is no point in even talking to a proven serial liar, let alone trying to reach an agreement.

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    1. I beg to differ. If you want to survive in the nuclear age then you talk to and even sign treaties with liars and card cheats. As Reagan put it: trust but verify. The problem with Minsk II was on two sides: the Ukrainians and NATO violated its provisions every day in ways that were easily verifiable by Russia; and Russia did nothing.

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      1. Russia could have prepared for and executed a showdown with the West a couple of years earlier. It could have pulled out of Minsk II for being the travesty it was. But the same problem was evidenced everywhere in Russian foreign policy: the illegal seizure of Russian diplomatic properties in the USA at the very start of the Trump presidency should not have been tolerated. The Russians should have confiscated US diplomatic properties at once.

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  14. ‘I have in mind Anatol Lieven and his latest article published on responsiblestatecraft.org: “Biden’s role in Ukraine peace is clear now.”’

    Three absurdities in one short sentence! Lieven himself is absurd and utterly unreliable. Biden’s role has been unremittingly disatrous, and he clearly has no idea what he is doing. The third absurdity is that title: “responsiblestatecraft.org”. Someone seems to have omitted the first two letters.

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  15. > I will go one step further and say that it is entirely possible that the Russian side suggested that it could accept Ukraine’s entry into NATO if there was a public commitment never to post NATO forces on Ukrainian territory and not to deliver offensive weapons to Ukraine. Such things can be monitored and if there are violations they can lead directly to revocation of the agreement before any harm is done to Russian security interests.

    Step 1: Make such an agreement with Russians
    Step 2: Produce and stockpile the ammo and weapons for the inevitable next round… with none of it leaving the US or better yet, EU soil with the public pretext of refilling your own stockpiles. Maybe also train Ukrainian army chunk by chunk which is not covered by the agreement.
    Step 3: Start the next round.

    See the problem in your approach? Non-agreement-capable means exactly this, you sign whatever then wait for the opportune moment and find ways around it.

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    1. “Non-agreement capable” is a nice term that Foreign Minister Lavrov has used repeatedly in recent weeks to show his contempt for his U.S. and EU counterparts. However, I do not doubt for a moment that the Russians will sit down with the Americans to wind up the war if the Americans come forward with proposals similar to what Lieven proposed in his latest article. As I said, if the agreements are violated then the Russians will do what they otherwise would do absent a written agreement – keep on blasting away at Ukraine and, if required, blast away at Germany, Poland, Romania and any other country whether NATO member or not that becomes a co-combattant as defined in international law. As was said last night on the Solovyov talk show, by legal definition that could right now include the United States given the public statements by General Milley in his capacity as head of the Joint Chiefs, calling for terrorist attacks on Russians everywhere as they sleep. “Slit their throats,” he said. A justified casus belli if anyone cares to identify one.

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      1. It’s more than just rhetoric. The proposals would involve a RF knowingly entering a deal that would break the first time a future leader in Kiev decides to shell the NPP at Energodar — and US would claim “they have no choice” but to “defend their innocent allies”.

        The past 20 months have shown how parties in Ukraine can and will cynically escalate to keep things moving. Kiev has seen more foreign investment than has been the case for a long time. A halt to hostilities stops that cash flow. Renewed fighting, even if it has to wait until after the US election, would very likely renew the cash flow. RF MoD are not so ignorant to miss this.

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      2. I have no doubt that Russians will sit down and talk even just to keep appearances. I also think that these rumors of behind the scenes talks are at least partially true. But I doubt that the US offers will be solid enough to have some trust in them. There’s also the point that Mercouris keeps repeating and I agree with: why would the Russians agree to anything now that in the end boils down to temporary 2-5 years ceasefire while Ukraine rebuilds their military capacity for the next round (or build more and better fortifications, for example). Unless of course there’s so little of Ukraine left that they won’t be able to build up anything significant at all. There’s no point in giving your enemy a reprieve unless you desperately need it too.

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  16. One of Russia’s objectives must be to keep US escalation to a minimum. One way to do that is keep the drip drip Russian advance from escalating. As long as there is little fighting along much of the front, then there is little dramatic news that will have to be explained by the White House and less panic to manage. It also would have minimum risk and cost for Russia.
    There is no urgent reason for Russia to change its policy. It is not in doubt that Russia is growing stronger and Ukraine weaker. Even Washington must be aware of that.
    Ukraine cannot operate a war without cash and ammunition. We are aware that both are scarce and growing scarcer. Fresh recruits are also scarce. The Ukrainian war effort is being strangled logistically. (I cant believe that the West have no ammunition. I accept that the current US Administration is somewhat dumb, but THAT dumb?? I am not buying it.)
    And as US election grows closer, the nagging pain of Ukraine, can only get worse. Trump, DiSantis, Ramaswamy, and RFK, are for ending the war, and only Biden is in favour of continuance. For Biden to call victory , and walk away would cause a fuss for a fortnight. But after Christmas who would care?

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